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MadCornishBiker On January 14, 2014

Banned



St Columb Road, United Kingdom
#31New Post! Dec 26, 2011 @ 17:48:20
@Glenn Said

And besides from...

https://www.gotquestions.org/military-Christian.html

In the New Testament, Jesus marveled when a Roman centurion (an officer in charge of one hundred soldiers) approached Him. The centurion’s response to Jesus indicated his clear understanding of authority, as well as his faith in Jesus (Matthew 8:5-13). Jesus did not denounce his career. Many centurions mentioned in the New Testament are praised as Christians, God-fearers, and men of good character (Matthew 8:5; 27:54; Mark 15:39-45; Luke 7:2; 23:47; Acts 10:1; 21:32; 28:16).



Why should Jesus denounce the centurions career, the centurion made no pretence at wishing to follow Jesus. Had he done so Jesus would have told him, as he did Matthew to leave his work and join him. He did however, as he did with the Grecian woman who he first refused to help, respond to her faith in his ability.

You are trying desperately to read into it what you want it to say, but it can't, and won't. Scripture means what it means, not what we wish it to to suit ourselves.

That fact remains that you are fighting for Satan's system, which means fighting against Christ and his Kingdom in the heavens.

This is an extract from the book "Reasoning from the Scriptures" which covers all scriptural aspects of neutrality to the affairs of this world.

Neutrality

Definition: The position of those who do not take sides with or give support to either of two or more contending parties. It is a fact of ancient and modern-day history that in every nation and under all circumstances true Christians have endeavored to maintain complete neutrality as to conflicts between factions of the world. They do not interfere with what others do about sharing in patriotic ceremonies, serving in the armed forces, joining a political party, running for a political office, or voting. But they themselves worship only Jehovah, the God of the Bible; they have dedicated their lives unreservedly to him and give their full support to his Kingdom.

What scriptures have had a bearing on the attitude of Christians toward the authority of secular governments?

Rom. 13:1, 5-7: “Let every soul be in subjection to the superior authorities [governmental rulers], for there is no authority except by God . . . There is therefore compelling reason for you people to be in subjection, not only on account of that wrath but also on account of your conscience. . . . Render to all their dues, to him who calls for the tax, the tax; to him who calls for the tribute, the tribute; to him who calls for fear, such fear; to him who calls for honor, such honor.” (No government could exist without God’s permission. Regardless of the conduct of individual officials, true Christians have shown them respect because of the office they occupied. For example, regardless of the use that governments have made of tax money, worshipers of Jehovah have made honest payment of their taxes in return for those services from which everyone could benefit.)

Mark 12:17: “Jesus then said: ‘Pay back Caesar’s things to Caesar, but God’s things to God.’” (So Christians have always recognized that they must not only “pay back” money in the form of taxes to the secular government but also fulfill the superior obligations they have toward God.)

Acts 5:28, 29: “[A spokesman for the Jewish high court] said: ‘We positively ordered you [the apostles] not to keep teaching upon the basis of this name [of Jesus Christ], and yet, look! you have filled Jerusalem with your teaching, and you are determined to bring the blood of this man upon us.’ In answer Peter and the other apostles said: ‘We must obey God as ruler rather than men.’” (When there has been a direct conflict between the commands of human rulers and the requirements of God, true Christians have imitated the example of the apostles by putting obedience to God first.)

What scriptures have always had a bearing on the attitude of true Christians toward participation in carnal warfare?

Matt. 26:52: “Jesus said to him: ‘Return your sword to its place, for all those who take the sword will perish by the sword.’” (Could there have been any higher cause for which to fight than to safeguard the Son of God? Yet, Jesus here indicated that those disciples were not to resort to weapons of physical warfare.)

Isa. 2:2-4: “It must occur in the final part of the days that the mountain of the house of Jehovah will become firmly established above the top of the mountains . . . And he will certainly render judgment among the nations and set matters straight respecting many peoples. And they will have to beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning shears. Nation will not lift up sword against nation, neither will they learn war anymore.” (Individuals out of all nations must personally decide what course they will pursue. Those who have heeded Jehovah’s judgment give evidence that he is their God.)

2 Cor. 10:3, 4: “Though we walk in the flesh, we do not wage warfare according to what we are in the flesh. For the weapons of our warfare are not fleshly, but powerful by God for overturning strongly
entrenched things.” (Paul here states that he never resorted to fleshly weapons, such as trickery, high-sounding language, or carnal weapons, to protect the congregation against false teachings.)

Luke 6:27, 28: “I [Jesus Christ] say to you who are listening, Continue to love your enemies, to do good to those hating you, to bless those cursing you, to pray for those who are insulting you.”

Is it not true that Jehovah allowed ancient Israel to engage in warfare?

Jehovah directed ancient Israel to use warfare to take possession of the land that he himself designated as their inheritance and to execute people whose depraved practices and defiance of the true God caused Jehovah to view them as being no longer fit to live. (Deut. 7:1, 2, 5; 9:5; Lev. 18:24, 25) Nevertheless, mercy was shown to Rahab and to the Gibeonites because they demonstrated faith in Jehovah. (Josh. 2:9-13; 9:24-27) In the Law covenant God laid down rules for warfare that he would approve, stipulating exemptions and the manner in which this warfare was to be carried out. Such were truly holy wars of Jehovah. That is not true of the carnal warfare of any nation today.

With the establishing of the Christian congregation, a new situation came into existence. Christians are not under the Mosaic Law. Christ’s followers were to make disciples of people of all nations; so worshippers of the true God would in time be found in all those nations. However, what is the motive of those nations when they go to war? Is it to carry out the will of the Creator of all the earth or is it to further some nationalistic interest? If true Christians in one nation were to go to war against another nation, they would be fighting against fellow believers, against people who prayed for help to the same God that they did. Appropriately, Christ directed his followers to lay down the sword. (Matt. 26:52) He himself, glorified in the heavens, would henceforth carry out the execution of those who showed defiance of the true God and His will.—2 Thess. 1:6-8; Rev. 19:11-21.

As to serving in the armed forces, what does secular history disclose about the attitude of early Christians?

“A careful review of all the information available goes to show that, until the time of Marcus Aurelius [Roman emperor from 161 to 180 C.E.], no Christian became a soldier; and no soldier, after becoming a Christian, remained in military service.”—The Rise of Christianity (London, 1947), E. W. Barnes, p. 333.

“We who were filled with war, and mutual slaughter, and every wickedness, have each through the whole earth changed our warlike weapons,—our swords into ploughshares, and our spears into implements of tillage,—and we cultivate piety, righteousness, philanthropy, faith, and hope, which we have from the Father Himself through Him who was crucified.”—Justin Martyr in “Dialogue With Trypho, a Jew” (2nd century C.E.), The Ante-Nicene Fathers (Grand Rapids, Mich.; reprint of 1885 Edinburgh edition), edited by A. Roberts and J. Donaldson, Vol. I, p. 254.

“They refused to take any active part in the civil administration or the military defence of the empire. . . . it was impossible that the Christians, without renouncing a more sacred duty, could assume the character of soldiers, of magistrates, or of princes.”—History of Christianity (New York, 1891), Edward Gibbon, pp. 162, 163.
What scriptures have always had a bearing on the attitude of true Christians toward involvement in political issues and activities?

John 17:16: “They are no part of the world, just as I [Jesus] am no part of the world.”

John 6:15: “Jesus, knowing they [the Jews] were about to come and seize him to make him king, withdrew again into the mountain all alone.” Later, he told the Roman governor: “My kingdom is no part of this world. If my kingdom were part of this world, my attendants would have fought that I should not be delivered up to the Jews. But, as it is, my kingdom is not from this source.”—John 18:36.

Jas. 4:4: “Adulteresses, do you not know that the friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever, therefore, wants to be a friend of the world is constituting himself an enemy of God.” (Why is the matter so serious? Because, as 1 John 5:19 says, “the whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one.” At John 14:30, Jesus referred to Satan as being “the ruler of the world.” So, no matter what worldly faction a person might support, under whose control would he really come?)

Regarding political involvement, what do secular historians report as being the attitude of those known as early Christians?

“Early Christianity was little understood and was regarded with little favor by those who ruled the pagan world. . . . Christians refused to share certain duties of Roman citizens. . . . They would not hold political office.”—On the Road to Civilization, A World History (Philadelphia, 1937), A. Heckel and J. Sigman, pp. 237, 238.

“The Christians stood aloof and distinct from the state, as a priestly and spiritual race, and Christianity seemed able to influence civil life only in that manner which, it must be confessed, is the purest, by practically endeavouring to instil more and more of holy feeling into the citizens of the state.”—The History of the Christian Religion and Church, During the Three First Centuries (New York, 1848), Augustus Neander, translated from German by H. J. Rose, p. 168.

What scriptures have always had a bearing on the attitude of true Christians toward ceremonies involving flags and national anthems?

1 Cor. 10:14: “Flee from idolatry.” (Also Exodus 20:4, 5)

1 John 5:21: “Little children, guard yourselves from idols.”

Luke 4:8: “In reply Jesus said to him: ‘It is written, “It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.”’”

See also Daniel 3:1-28.

Do such patriotic symbols and ceremonies really have religious significance?

“[Historian] Carlton Hayes pointed out long ago that the ritual of flag-worship and oath-taking in an American school is a religious observance. . . . And that these daily rituals are religious has been at last affirmed by the Supreme Court in a series of cases.”—The American Character (New York, 1956), D. W. Brogan, pp. 163, 164.
“Early flags were almost purely of a religious character. . . . The national banner of England for centuries—the red cross of St. George—was a religious one; in fact the aid of religion seems ever to have been sought to give sanctity to national flags, and the origin of many can be traced to a sacred banner.”—Encyclopædia Britannica (1946), Vol. 9, p. 343.

“In a public ceremony presided over by the vice president of the [Military Supreme] Court, on the 19th of November, honors were shown to the Brazilian flag. . . . After the flag was hoisted, Minister General of the Army Tristao de Alencar Araripe expressed himself concerning the commemoration in this manner: ‘ . . . flags have become a divinity of patriotic religion which imposes worship . . . The flag is venerated and worshiped . . . The flag is worshiped, just as the Fatherland is worshiped.’”—Diario da Justiça (Federal Capital, Brazil), February 16, 1956, p. 1906.

With reference to patriotic ceremonies, what does secular history say about the attitude of those known as early Christians?

“Christians refused to . . . sacrifice to the emperor’s genius—roughly equivalent today to refusing to salute the flag or repeat the oath of allegiance. . . . Very few of the Christians recanted, although an altar with a fire burning on it was generally kept in the arena for their convenience. All a prisoner had to do was scatter a pinch of incense on the flame and he was given a Certificate of Sacrifice and turned free. It was also carefully explained to him that he was not worshiping the emperor; merely acknowledging the divine character of the emperor as head of the Roman state. Still, almost no Christians availed themselves of the chance to escape.”—Those About to Die (New York, 1958), D. P. Mannix, pp. 135, 137.

“The act of emperor worship consisted in sprinkling a few grains of incense or a few drops of wine on an altar which stood before an image of the emperor. Perhaps at our long remove from the situation we see in the act nothing different from . . . lifting the hand in salute to the flag or to some distinguished ruler of state, an expression of courtesy, respect, and patriotism. Possibly a good many people in the first century felt just that way about it but not so the Christians.
They viewed the whole matter as one of religious worship, acknowledging the emperor as a deity and therefore being disloyal to
God and Christ, and they refused to do it.”—The Beginnings of the Christian Religion (New Haven, Conn.; 1958), M. F. Eller, pp. 208, 209.

Has the neutrality of Christians meant that they are not interested in the welfare of their neighbors?

Certainly not. They know well and conscientiously endeavor to apply the command repeated by Jesus: “You must love your neighbor as yourself.” (Matt. 22:39) Also the counsel recorded by the apostle Paul: “Let us work what is good toward all, but especially toward those related to us in the faith.” (Gal. 6:10) They have been convinced that the greatest good that they can do for their neighbors is to share with them the good news of God’s Kingdom, which will lastingly solve the problems facing mankind and which opens up to those who embrace it the marvelous prospect of eternal life.
MadCornishBiker On January 14, 2014

Banned



St Columb Road, United Kingdom
#32New Post! Dec 26, 2011 @ 17:50:16
@CausaMortis Said

Glenn why do youy even bother justifying yourself to this guy?

Do your duty, treat no one with malice, do not judge, be honest and forthright, and know that it's not acts that save you but your faith in christ.



It is not necessary for Glenn to justify himself to me, bt I suspect he does so because in his heart he knows I am right, because I speak from God's word not that of any man.

He needs to justify himself to God and Christ, not me or any other humans.

Se my post just prior to this in reply to Glenn.
MadCornishBiker On January 14, 2014

Banned



St Columb Road, United Kingdom
#33New Post! Dec 26, 2011 @ 17:54:45
@Glenn Said

And you have warned me ... So why do you keep bringing it up unless you are unwilling to forgive me?

Luke 11

Jesus’ Teaching on Prayer

 1 One day Jesus was praying in a certain place. When he finished, one of his disciples said to him, “Lord, teach us to pray, just as John taught his disciples.”
 2 He said to them, “When you pray, say:

   “‘Father,[a]
hallowed be your name,
your kingdom come.
3 Give us each day our daily bread.
4 Forgive us our sins,
   for we also forgive everyone who sins against us.[c]
And lead us not into temptation.[d]’”.


I keep bringing it up because you keep relying to my original posts about it, bit also because I want to see you, and everybody else, forgiven for what they do.

As I said earlier, if I were to keep my mouth shut I would then be guilty of your blood and all those who may have listened to God's word on the matter.

Your persistence in trying to justify yourself to me shows you recognise, as you have already said, your guilt. What you need to recognise now is what to do about it.

As I said it is not my place to forgive you, or not to forgive you. That only Christ and his Father can do.I cannot and do not condemn you, simply what you do.
CausaMortis On April 20, 2012




San Antonio, Texas
#34New Post! Dec 26, 2011 @ 18:44:02
@MadCornishBiker Said

It is not necessary for Glenn to justify himself to me, bt I suspect he does so because in his heart he knows I am right, because I speak from God's word not that of any man.

He needs to justify himself to God and Christ, not me or any other humans.

Se my post just prior to this in reply to Glenn.


By your own definition, then EVERYONE who works for the "evil" government is doomed to eternity in hell and not just those who serve in the military. You make no distinction in how a person fulfills their dutiies and what exactly that entails. By your own interpretation you have just doomed somewhere between one quarter to one half of first world's population to hell.

Also if you want anyone to actually read your post, then make your points succinct and precise, very few of us have the time nor inclination to negotiate a huge wall of text so you can finally get to the point.
MadCornishBiker On January 14, 2014

Banned



St Columb Road, United Kingdom
#35New Post! Dec 26, 2011 @ 19:05:28
@CausaMortis Said

By your own definition, then EVERYONE who works for the "evil" government is doomed to eternity in hell and not just those who serve in the military. You make no distinction in how a person fulfills their dutiies and what exactly that entails. By your own interpretation you have just doomed somewhere between one quarter to one half of first world's population to hell.



Not my definition. God's and Christ's. It's all there in scripture for all to see, as well as in the history of the early, pre-apostate church. It has absolutely nothing to do with me.

You also seem inclined to stick to the unscriptural view of Hades, or Sheol, (the Greek and the Hebrew, often misconstrued as a place of eternal suffering, rather than the repose of the completely unconscious that the bible describes). However it is true that death awaits all those who refuse to turn back from their ways, though any who choose to truly repent and live by that repentance are welcome into God's eternal Kingdom. God doesn't hold grudges against any who turn away from their wrong hold path.

I have doomed no-one to any thing, that is something only they can do for themselves by ignoring God's advice and pleas for then to turn to salvation. It has nothing to do with me. I am merely one of the vessels God uses to try to get people to see "cliff edge" they are walking towards and turn from it. That is something Christ commissioned all who choose to follow him to do.

As for the numbers, the bible does foretell that the true followers who survive either Armageddon or the final test are very much in the minority. Not because God wants it that way, but because He knows the human heart. That is why Jesus also told his followers that "“Go in through the narrow gate; because broad and spacious is the road leading off into destruction, and many are the ones going in through it; whereas narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are the ones finding it." (Matthew 7:13,14).

As I say. Not my judgements, but God's advance warning of what His judgements will be, at the hands of His son. Take what God offers, and turn from serving Satan's world and instead ally yourself with God's kingdom which stands in opposition to Satan's. However until Christ himself steps in continue to give Caesar's things to Caesar, but most importantly give God's things to God, as Jesus and the Apostles urged all true followers.The benefits are roe than worth it, especially in the long term. Meanwhile, follow Joshua's advice to the Israelites before he died and trust in the true God with all your hearts.

Joshua 23:14-16 "“Now, look! I am going today in the way of all the earth, and YOU well know with all YOUR hearts and with all YOUR souls that not one word out of all the good words that Jehovah YOUR God has spoken to YOU has failed. They have all come true for YOU. Not one word of them has failed. 15 And it must occur that, just as all the good word that Jehovah YOUR God has spoken to YOU has come upon YOU, so Jehovah will bring upon YOU all the evil word until he has annihilated YOU from off this good ground that Jehovah YOUR God has given YOU, 16 because of YOUR overstepping the covenant of Jehovah YOUR God that he commanded YOU, and because YOU have gone and served other gods and bowed down to them. And Jehovah’s anger will certainly blaze against YOU, and YOU will certainly perish in a hurry from off the good land that he has given YOU." The "good land" in question of course being the soon to be restored paradise earth that is promised to the faithful to enjoy eternally.
Glenn On January 10, 2013
Average Jet Pilot


Deleted
Banned



Meridian, Mississippi
#36New Post! Dec 26, 2011 @ 19:10:56
@MadCornishBiker Said

I keep bringing it up because you keep relying to my original posts about it, bit also because I want to see you, and everybody else, forgiven for what they do.

As I said earlier, if I were to keep my mouth shut I would then be guilty of your blood and all those who may have listened to God's word on the matter.

Your persistence in trying to justify yourself to me shows you recognise, as you have already said, your guilt. What you need to recognise now is what to do about it.

As I said it is not my place to forgive you, or not to forgive you. That only Christ and his Father can do.I cannot and do not condemn you, simply what you do.



I assure you I am not trying to justify myself to you ... I only disagree with you saying that the Israelites did not WAR against their enemies. They had a standing army and they wielded and used their swords. To say that they did not is utterly false.
MadCornishBiker On January 14, 2014

Banned



St Columb Road, United Kingdom
#37New Post! Dec 26, 2011 @ 19:13:05
@CausaMortis Said


Also if you want anyone to actually read your post, then make your points succinct and precise, very few of us have the time nor inclination to negotiate a huge wall of text so you can finally get to the point.


Well you certainly got me there. I do try to be as succinct as I can but I am always afraid of leaving something important out, and not getting the important message over.

Of course those who are really interested in seeking God's viewpoint will always read it, if they put sufficient importance on God's word. If not they have to remember that ignorance will be no excuse when it has been put in front of them.

As for not having time, if one doesn't have time for God and His word, they have a real problem, which needs changing. As Jesus says, following him has to come before everything else. (Matthew 10, roughly v.32 onwards).
MadCornishBiker On January 14, 2014

Banned



St Columb Road, United Kingdom
#38New Post! Dec 26, 2011 @ 19:27:15
@Glenn Said

I assure you I am not trying to justify myself to you ... I only disagree with you saying that the Israelites did not WAR against their enemies. They had a standing army and they wielded and used their swords. To say that they did not is utterly false.



As has been pointed out to you by other than me, I never said they didn't, I only said that God did the majority of the fighting for them.

Yes, God had a standing army amongst His people, but he no longer has one, and all the armies on the earth now belong top Satan, not God, and all wars are between Satan's governments not for any Godly purpose, which you will know if you read the material included on my earlier post on this subject.

You really do need to learn what you are talking about before you argue. God condemns every part of Satan's organisation from the demons that followed him to the humans who take a part in that organisation, and serve it in any way.

Even in the last World Wars there were those who had the courage to make their stand for their Christian Consciences and preferred time in Hitler's Concentration camps and Britain's prisons, as well as the hatred of those who supported the war, to the displeasure of the Christ.

There will always be those who have the courage to stand up for God and Christ's side of the issue, no matter how unpopular it makes them with those who either don't believe or don't have the courage to make their stand.
Glenn On January 10, 2013
Average Jet Pilot


Deleted
Banned



Meridian, Mississippi
#39New Post! Dec 26, 2011 @ 20:03:18
@MadCornishBiker Said

As has been pointed out to you by other than me, I never said they didn't, I only said that God did the majority of the fighting for them.

Yes, God had a standing army amongst His people, but he no longer has one, and all the armies on the earth now belong top Satan, not God, and all wars are between Satan's governments not for any Godly purpose, which you will know if you read the material included on my earlier post on this subject.

You really do need to learn what you are talking about before you argue. God condemns every part of Satan's organisation from the demons that followed him to the humans who take a part in that organisation, and serve it in any way.

Even in the last World Wars there were those who had the courage to make their stand for their Christian Consciences and preferred time in Hitler's Concentration camps and Britain's prisons, as well as the hatred of those who supported the war, to the displeasure of the Christ.

There will always be those who have the courage to stand up for God and Christ's side of the issue, no matter how unpopular it makes them with those who either don't believe or don't have the courage to make their stand.



Sorry biker the bible is very clear
.. God said he would deliver them into their hands. The Israelites used swords on all but a few of their enemies.

Saul loaned his armour to David ... Saul wore armour ... because he
was a warrior and he killed his enemies ... as did David ... just as he killed Goliath.


All that other stuff you wrote is off topic.
MadCornishBiker On January 14, 2014

Banned



St Columb Road, United Kingdom
#40New Post! Dec 26, 2011 @ 20:18:03
@Glenn Said

Sorry biker the bible is very clear
.. God said he would deliver them into their hands. The Israelites used swords on all but a few of their enemies.

Saul loaned his armour to David ... Saul wore armour ... because he
was a warrior and he killed his enemies ... as did David ... just as he killed Goliath.


All that other stuff you wrote is off topic.


It's all related to the same topic though, and as you can see I have started a thread broadening the topic out to include all of it.

Again, all those quoted examples were part of God's people carrying out God's judgement, with God's assistance. God guided David's slingshot. Saul is a slightly different case because he was an unfaithful king anyway, who turned to worshipping other God's anyway. There is no way that any of this justifies joining in fights between different parts of Satan's system, as you do. We are supposed to have nothing not do with God's enemies.

That is what is called misapplying scripture to suit your own wishes.
Glenn On January 10, 2013
Average Jet Pilot


Deleted
Banned



Meridian, Mississippi
#41New Post! Dec 26, 2011 @ 21:43:13
@MadCornishBiker Said

It's all related to the same topic though, and as you can see I have started a thread broadening the topic out to include all of it.

Again, all those quoted examples were part of God's people carrying out God's judgement, with God's assistance. God guided David's slingshot. Saul is a slightly different case because he was an unfaithful king anyway, who turned to worshipping other God's anyway. There is no way that any of this justifies joining in fights between different parts of Satan's system, as you do. We are supposed to have nothing not do with God's enemies.

That is what is called misapplying scripture to suit your own wishes.



Fine then take Joshua, Gideon and numerous other faithful kings who wielded the sword. Even Samual hacked ...uh... with a sword... Agag to pieces ... one of the enemies that Saul should have killed.
MadCornishBiker On January 14, 2014

Banned



St Columb Road, United Kingdom
#42New Post! Dec 26, 2011 @ 21:52:33
@Glenn Said

Fine then take Joshua, Gideon and numerous other faithful kings who wielded the sword. Even Samual hacked ...uh... with a sword... Agag to pieces ... one of the enemies that Saul should have killed.



Yes, but you forget they were executing God's judgements. If we had to do that today, as Christ's followers we would have to take on every government on the globe, including the one you fight for, since all are under the thrall of Satan, whether they pretend to be Christian or not. Fortunately we don't have to do that, we simply have to wait God's own time, and then Christ and the Angels will do the work for us at Armageddon, when the Kingdom rule is extended to include the earth and all the Governments are destroyed.

We are more fortunate than those you mentioned, and all of God's people in those days, we only have to stand and watch, and trust in God's protection.

Dan. 2:44: “The God of heaven will set up a kingdom . . . It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it itself will stand to times indefinite.”

Rev. 19:17, 18: “I saw also an angel standing in the sun, and he cried out with a loud voice and said to all the birds that fly in midheaven: ‘Come here, be gathered together to the great evening meal of God, that you may eat the fleshy parts of kings and the fleshy parts of military commanders and the fleshy parts of strong men and the fleshy parts of horses and of those seated upon them, and the fleshy parts of all, of freemen as well as of slaves and of small ones and great.’”

1 John 2:16, 17: “Everything in the world—the desire of the flesh and the desire of the eyes and the showy display of one’s means of life—does not originate with the Father, but originates with the world. Furthermore, the world is passing away and so is its desire, but he that does the will of God remains forever.”

Rev. 21:8: “As for the cowards and those without faith and those who are disgusting in their filth and murderers and fornicators and those practicing spiritism and idolaters and all the liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulphur. This means the second death.”
Glenn On January 10, 2013
Average Jet Pilot


Deleted
Banned



Meridian, Mississippi
#43New Post! Dec 27, 2011 @ 00:44:03
@MadCornishBiker Said

Yes, but you forget they were executing God's judgements. If we had to do that today, as Christ's followers we would have to take on every government on the globe, including the one you fight for, since all are under the thrall of Satan, whether they pretend to be Christian or not. Fortunately we don't have to do that, we simply have to wait God's own time, and then Christ and the Angels will do the work for us at Armageddon, when the Kingdom rule is extended to include the earth and all the Governments are destroyed.

We are more fortunate than those you mentioned, and all of God's people in those days, we only have to stand and watch, and trust in God's protection.

Dan. 2:44: “The God of heaven will set up a kingdom . . . It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it itself will stand to times indefinite.”

Rev. 19:17, 18: “I saw also an angel standing in the sun, and he cried out with a loud voice and said to all the birds that fly in midheaven: ‘Come here, be gathered together to the great evening meal of God, that you may eat the fleshy parts of kings and the fleshy parts of military commanders and the fleshy parts of strong men and the fleshy parts of horses and of those seated upon them, and the fleshy parts of all, of freemen as well as of slaves and of small ones and great.’”

1 John 2:16, 17: “Everything in the world—the desire of the flesh and the desire of the eyes and the showy display of one’s means of life—does not originate with the Father, but originates with the world. Furthermore, the world is passing away and so is its desire, but he that does the will of God remains forever.”

Rev. 21:8: “As for the cowards and those without faith and those who are disgusting in their filth and murderers and fornicators and those practicing spiritism and idolaters and all the liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulphur. This means the second death.”


So then this is why JWs dodged the draft back un the sixties?
MadCornishBiker On January 14, 2014

Banned



St Columb Road, United Kingdom
#44New Post! Dec 27, 2011 @ 09:17:20
@Glenn Said

So then this is why JWs dodged the draft back un the sixties?


Yes, it is why they and other's with that much of a Christian conscience did, yes. It is why the Romans didn't understand them, why the British jailed them and why the Nazis put in them in the concentration camps. The big difference between them and most others is that the JWs never ran from the consequences of their actions, and in fact used them as a witness to what the bible says about Neutrality, and happily accepted whatever came from that.

At least they had the courage of their convictions, and refused to support the war in any role whatever, even non-combattant roles. I pray I would have the courage to do the same if I were ever in that position, which at my age now is unlikely.

In what I say next I can't speak for any other country of course, but I do know that many in the UK went to war because they were more scared of what would happen if they didn't than of the Nazi weaponry, I have that on the authority of a wounded soldier who openly admitted why he, and many others he knew, had gone to war.
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