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Animal Rights

The Solution is Veganism

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rogy On June 03, 2013




, United Kingdom
#31New Post! Oct 22, 2011 @ 08:46:56
@jorie_13 Said

Nope. I don't think there's nothing wrong with it whatsoever. As long as no one eats my cat.



So, what makes the cat different - that's she's your legal property?

rogY
rogy On June 03, 2013




, United Kingdom
#32New Post! Oct 22, 2011 @ 08:53:22
@jonnythan Said

Wow, the video starts off pretty badly. The first 'fact' is "98% of all animals abused and killed are those we eat."

That is a blatant lie. Even if you mean "all animals killed by humans" it's a blatant lie. Insects are animals. I dare say that humankind, globally, kills many times more insects in a day than food animals. I killed two mosquitos before breakfast, and I didn't make up for it by eating 100 chickens.

The video then goes on to tell us about how much of our plant-based food output goes to feeding food animals. Yeah, and? It's not like all of the food animal feed will just magically go on to feed poor people in Africa. If we stopped eating animals, plant-based food production would drop accordingly, and millions of acres of farmland would go fallow. Impoverished and starving people in Africa can't afford our corn and wheat whether we feed it to animals or not. It doesn't matter that it's inefficient - we can afford it, and the sun does most of the work for us.

Suffice to say, there would be fewer jobs and a lot less farmland if we stopped eating animals.



On the face of it, we do not "abuse and kill" insects. However, the other animals being referred to are the ones (billions of them) we deliberately breed in order to exploit them.

Most of the animals we exploit for their flesh are not just hanging around waiting to be eaten.

Moreover, in terms of insects, term "animal rights" is rather misleading. IOWs, it is not clear that insects are "covered" by animal rights thought on the grounds that it is not clear that they are sentient beings. This does not mean that they do not matter - and it has been pointed out that Planet Earth can survive without us and yet it depends on insects. Environmentally, insects are more important than humans.


rogY
AJL On November 04, 2012




Grapevine, Texas
#33New Post! Oct 22, 2011 @ 12:29:42
I thank those of you who maintained that vegan diets can be healthy.

Here is an essay that explores some of the claims made by "ex-vegans". It is extremely relevant to this discussion:

https://unpopularveganessays.blogspot.com/search/label/ex-vegans

Quote:
The point of addressing the variety in meaning of the terms “animal rights” and “vegan” is that when people claim they are no longer vegan or animal rights vegan, it has very little meaning outside of the context in which those terms are used. There may be a lot of “ex-vegans”, but when they were “vegans”, what did that mean? Did they go without animal products for several hours daily (“vegan before 6pm”)? Did they go on a “vegan health diet” for a few weeks, months, or years only as a fad diet right after their Atkins diet? If they were vegan for “animal rights” reasons, what did they mean by that? Are they referring to a concern about animal welfare?

We should be careful about the claims of people who currently call themselves “vegan” and those who call themselves “ex-vegans”.

AJL On November 04, 2012




Grapevine, Texas
#34New Post! Oct 22, 2011 @ 12:43:11
@rogy Said

On the face of it, we do not "abuse and kill" insects. However, the other animals being referred to are the ones (billions of them) we deliberately breed in order to exploit them.

It is probably worth noting that we do in fact "deliberately breed" certain insects in order to exploit them such as bees and silk worms. The question as to whether or not we kill more insects than say, land animals, in this regard seems to be wholly irrelevant in my view. Should not one's goal be to reduce suffering and death as much as possible?

Veganism generally consists of (and it should in my view) avoiding the products produced by these species. This is mostly due to that fact that we err on the side of caution when it comes to the inherent value of insects, which brings us to your next point:

Quote:

Moreover, in terms of insects, term "animal rights" is rather misleading. IOWs, it is not clear that insects are "covered" by animal rights thought on the grounds that it is not clear that they are sentient beings. This does not mean that they do not matter - and it has been pointed out that Planet Earth can survive without us and yet it depends on insects. Environmentally, insects are more important than humans.


rogY

I agree. Furthermore, although it is not clear whether or not insects are sentient, or in other words, possess interests, this does mean that we should be free to ignore those that clearly possess sentience (such as those animals depicted in the video.)
jonnythan On August 02, 2014
Bringer of rad mirth


Deleted



Here and there,
#35New Post! Oct 22, 2011 @ 13:20:49
My only point with the insects is that the video lied.
AJL On November 04, 2012




Grapevine, Texas
#36New Post! Oct 22, 2011 @ 14:12:13
@rogy Said

Perhaps you'd agree that it's a rights violation?

rogY

@jonnythan Said

Only if animals have the right to life, which they don't in my opinion.


And why is this your opinion? Would you agree that other animals have an interest in remaining alive?
jonnythan On August 02, 2014
Bringer of rad mirth


Deleted



Here and there,
#37New Post! Oct 22, 2011 @ 14:33:31
@AJL Said

And why is this your opinion? Would you agree that other animals have an interest in remaining alive?


See this post:
https://www.theforumsite.com/forum.php?p=5916560#5916560

This was pretty much the exact same discussion.
AJL On November 04, 2012




Grapevine, Texas
#38New Post! Oct 22, 2011 @ 15:03:14
@jonnythan Said

See this post:
https://www.theforumsite.com/forum.php?p=5916560#5916560

This was pretty much the exact same discussion.

Yes, and I'm also curious about the conclusion you made in that discussion:

@jonnythan Said
My point, which is clear to anyone who isn't intentionally misunderstanding, is that animals have natural desires and instincts, but they do not have preferences.


I don't understand how one divides desires from preferences or having a concious interest in something.

E.g., how is claiming that an animal has a desire to live different from stating they have a preference to live?
rogy On June 03, 2013




, United Kingdom
#39New Post! Oct 22, 2011 @ 18:52:12
@AJL Said

It is probably worth noting that we do in fact "deliberately breed" certain insects in order to exploit them such as bees and silk worms.



Yes, indeed. Point taken and I stand - well, sit really - corrected.

rogY
rogy On June 03, 2013




, United Kingdom
#40New Post! Oct 22, 2011 @ 18:54:28
@jonnythan Said

My only point with the insects is that the video lied.



Well, again, not really in the sense that it is not clear that insects are "covered" by the theory of animal rights and - bees and silk worms aside - the video did say "abuse."


rogY
jonnythan On August 02, 2014
Bringer of rad mirth


Deleted



Here and there,
#41New Post! Oct 22, 2011 @ 18:55:56
@rogy Said

Well, again, not really in the sense that it is not clear that insects are "covered" by the theory of animal rights and - bees and silk worms aside - the video did say "abuse."


rogY


The quoted fact said nothing about animal rights.

It said, and this is a complete and direct quote, "98% of all animals abused and killed are those we eat."

That is, quite simply, an incorrect fact. It is an untruth. It is a lie.
annski729 On July 24, 2016




, United States (general)
#42New Post! Oct 22, 2011 @ 18:57:52
@treebee Said

I just have to say that dark greens are generally rich in vitamins and minerals. Its a shame we do not eat more of them.



I agree, except nobody should have to eat kale. It's disgusting hate kale.
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