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Teaching creation in history class instead of science class

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nooneinparticular On March 16, 2023




, Hawaii
#196New Post! Nov 04, 2011 @ 03:53:03
@MadCornishBiker Said

I have to admit that I don't find the key phrases vague, though the prophecy itself is if you haven't found the key phrases that unlock it.



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Well for a start it doesn't foretell the end of the world, though admittedly most thought it did at the time because what it actually foretells Christ taking up kingdom power in the heavens. Some simply concluded that this would also signal Armageddon, but they were simply being too eager and getting ahead of God. Never a good idea, but we all do it at times if we aren't careful.


I said end of days, because that is what I was taught in Catholic school, and I also believe that Revelations uses that phrase quite a bit, though its been a while since I've read the Bible.

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The bible doesn't differentiate between the two, because Rome was the source of both. It confuses some people but as I said earlier the truth is usually simple.


Which indicates that 4 were in existence and rather influential or dead by the time the prophecies were written, and considering the last was apparently meant as an ethereal link anyways, then what part of this was a prediction exactly?

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Yes, but as I say above the bible simply runs the one into the other seamlessly. and doesn't differentiate between them, i. e. treats them as one.


Then for purposes of the prophecy we should do the same. Ergo 4 powers existed at some point in time before the prophecy was written...

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I am not quite sure what you mean there, but that is why iron is used for the Rome Empires, both Secular and Holy.


The Church is considered as a continuation simply because of that phrase. The other powers mentioned before or after do not have such a link

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Yes basically, if I am understanding you correctly, the people also believed the church when it said that so-and-so had the divine right, which made it easier for the kings and put them, in the debt of the church.



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That really makes little difference because it is only the ones who had a direct effect on God's people, and starts with Babylon because that was the power that held sway over them at the time of the prophecy.


How direct is direct, cause I can think of at least 5 countries in Europe who had 'direct' control over God's people between the 5th and 15th centuries and about 3 or 4 could match with the prophecy.

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No, that isn't the implication I intened to give it. The bible makes very clear which are God's people and when they became so.

The point I was trying to make is that not all prophecies give a timescale, though they are often linked to others that do. Sometimes we are simply given signs to look out for. Often you can only understand those as they happen, or even after.


With signs so vague I feel like I'm reading one of Nostradamus's predictions on the future.

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As an example of that, the prophecy in Daniel 4 was as it happens a prophecy with a dual fulfilment, nothing unusual about that. One of the fulfilments was to occur in Nebuchadnezzar's lifetime, and the other was the establishment of Jesus kingdom in 1914. At Matthew 24, Jesus also gave a dual prophecy n answer to what the disciples didn't realise were two questions. One was to have it's fulfilment n the destruction of the temple and the other was the sign of the time after he took Kingdom power, "the time of the end". Jesus gave no actual time, for it, but since it is also of his return in kingdom power that means it start it's fulfilment after 1914. The signs he gave are definitely being fulfilled, though nothing was said about how long they would last, nor whether t.hey would be instant or increase over time. They are it seems increasing over time, and not done yet.


Weren't the signs wars and famines and global rivalries between kings or something? My Jesus prophecy is a little rusty...

If that's the case, those happened in almost every age, which is partly why people cropped up professing the end of days and the coming of God's Kingdom in most of them.
Electric_Banana On about 2 hours ago




, New Zealand
#197New Post! Nov 04, 2011 @ 04:10:53
@nooneinparticular Said

Why are people so bent on teaching creation in science classrooms when the connection is strenuous at best, when it would be much easier, I would think, not to mention make a lot more sense to teach it in something like history classrooms if people are so hell-bent on getting this in schools.

What logical reason is there to prefer one over the other? Why push so hard for it in science classes and say nothing (that I'm aware of) about the other possible classrooms they could talk about it?



They should teach it in a secondary science class like meta or quantum physics - both of which back-handedly suggest that Creation is a reality.
nooneinparticular On March 16, 2023




, Hawaii
#198New Post! Nov 04, 2011 @ 04:23:15
@Electric_Banana Said

They should teach it in a secondary science class like meta or quantum physics - both of which back-handedly suggest that Creation is a reality.


What? I must be slipping on my science reading. Since when did meta or quantum physics suggest creation?
Electric_Banana On about 2 hours ago




, New Zealand
#199New Post! Nov 04, 2011 @ 04:39:13
@nooneinparticular Said

What? I must be slipping on my science reading. Since when did meta or quantum physics suggest creation?



Bugger, LTP's site is having issues otherwise I'd linky some vids.

Quantum more or less suggests that we're all automatons and that the sound waves transmitted are all for our 'viewing pleasure' (as coined by someone else commenting to me awhile back).

As for 'Metaphysics' the term is up for debate depending on the individual scientist.

Taken from Wiki:

"Origins and nature of metaphysics

Although the word "metaphysics" goes back to Aristotelean philosophy, Aristotle himself credited earlier philosophers with dealing with metaphysical questions. The first known philosopher, according to Aristotle, is Thales of Miletus, who taught that all things derive from a single first cause or Arche.
Scientific questions in ancient Greece were addressed to metaphysicians, but by the 18th century, the skeptics' How do you know? led to a new branch of philosophy called epistemology (how we know) to fill-out the metaphysics (what we know) and this led to science (Latin to know) and to the scientific method (the precision of which is still being debated). Skepticism evolved epistemology out of metaphysics. Thereafter, metaphysics denoted philosophical inquiry of a non-empirical character into the nature of existence.[6]
Metaphysics as a discipline was a central part of academic inquiry and scholarly education even before the age of Aristotle, who considered it "the Queen of Sciences." Its issues were considered[by whom?] no less important than the other main formal subjects of physical science, medicine, mathematics, poetics and music. Since the beginning of modern philosophy during the seventeenth century, problems that were not originally considered within the bounds of metaphysics have been added to its purview, while other problems considered metaphysical for centuries are now typically subjects of their own separate regions in philosophy, such as philosophy of religion, philosophy of mind, philosophy of perception, philosophy of language, and philosophy of science.
In some cases, subjects of metaphysical scholarship have been found to be entirely physical and natural, thus making them part of science proper (cf. the theory of Relativity)."
MadCornishBiker On January 14, 2014

Banned



St Columb Road, United Kingdom
#200New Post! Nov 04, 2011 @ 11:19:25
@nooneinparticular Said

I said end of days, because that is what I was taught in Catholic school, and I also believe that Revelations uses that phrase quite a bit, though its been a while since I've read the Bible.


Or words to that effect depending on translations, yes. Not entirely accurate as it is the system that is ending not the days, lol, but that is being pedantic, lol.

@nooneinparticular Said

Which indicates that 4 were in existence and rather influential or dead by the time the prophecies were written, and considering the last was apparently meant as an ethereal link anyways, then what part of this was a prediction exactly?

Then for purposes of the prophecy we should do the same. Ergo 4 powers existed at some point in time before the prophecy was written...


In existence yes, but who would know which were going to have sway over Israel until they did, unless they read the prophecy?

@nooneinparticular Said

The Church is considered as a continuation simply because of that phrase. The other powers mentioned before or after do not have such a link


None of the others are connected except for media and Persia and they too are named together, because though they were separate kingdoms they worked together, and if I remember my history aright the one superceded the other, as with the Secular and Holy Roman Empires

@nooneinparticular Said

How direct is direct, cause I can think of at least 5 countries in Europe who had 'direct' control over God's people between the 5th and 15th centuries and about 3 or 4 could match with the prophecy.


Yes, but none were classed as world powers, even at the time.

@nooneinparticular Said

With signs so vague I feel like I'm reading one of Nostradamus's predictions on the future.


Until you find the keys that unlock the vagueness, which none of Nostradamus' prophecies have in them or even around them.

@nooneinparticular Said

Weren't the signs wars and famines and global rivalries between kings or something? My Jesus prophecy is a little rusty...

If that's the case, those happened in almost every age, which is partly why people cropped up professing the end of days and the coming of God's Kingdom in most of them.


Most of them have happened in every age. The significance of the prophecy lies in the fact that they have never happen with such global effect before, nor such frequency or even intensity as far as we know.

And therin lies the greatest power of the prophecy. What use a "global" sign if the majority of people cannot see it? There has been no other time in history, when it was so possible for people all over the globe to hear these things almost simultaneously to their happening.

Not only is the intensity of war increasing in that the death toll is often higher and the damage to the infra structure much greater, but now we can actually watch them on the news as they happen! Christ's ability to foresee that was amazing.

Many of the wars in earlier centuries were local skirmishes between tribes rather than full scale wars, but even those that were full scale wars were to globally known for some time after.
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