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Ian Bell Run Out Incident at Trent Bridge

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Leon On December 21, 2023




San Diego, California
#16New Post! Aug 05, 2011 @ 12:43:05
@Jennifer1984 Said

It would be interesting to know how the US sports authorities, and public media reported the medals tables in 1896, 1912 and 1964 when the US finished with the most gold medals, but were second or lower in the overall medal count.

I know I'm a bit of an Olympics junkie, but these things do intrigue me. I'm also aware that in the early years of the modern olympics, medals were awarded for all sorts of odd events... In St Louis in 1904, medals were actually awarded for Mud Throwing..!! Also, there are differing versions of the "official" medal tables for the early years of the modern games. But hey... it's an interesting point.

At the end of the day, Leon, I guess we all have differing standards of what is considered "right and wrong", and we all have our reasons for it. Fair enough.

To think that all this comes out as a result of one individual being in a bit too much of a hurry to get his tea is one of those odd little quirks of sport that make discussion of such topics so absorbing. Long may it continue.

I'd be interested to know of any little quirky events that have happened on your side of the pond, which might have thrown up similar discussions or points of interest down the years.

I'm fascinated, now.


.



Well, the Pine Tar Incident in baseball in 1983 comes immediately to mind.

The Yankees were certainly within the rules to protest George Brett's home run and the umpires had no choice because of it, but the controversy was the silliness of the rule and why it is even written down: The home run was negated because of the amound of pine tar on George's bat handle.
Jacquesmetat On August 01, 2012




Out on the 'oggin, United King
#17New Post! Aug 06, 2011 @ 09:00:17
Reading the posts on this thread makes me think of the way football is refereed now. When I quit playing I became a referee and officiated in games for seven years. When I started out, referees had discretion and could apply what Jennifer calles the spirit of the game. Being a former player, I knew what goes on in a game and I could tell the difference between accidental incidents and malice. I could 'read' the play and I used my experience. That was how football was refereed from the top level of the old first division to the local parks leagues. Players didnt attempt to cheat because they knew the ref wasnt stupid and wasn't easily conned. In fact, there were situations in matches where referees would see a player trying it on and card the cheat. That's justice.

One of the problems with this though, was that it led to inconsistency. one ref might yellow card somebody for something and others would be more lenient. Some would whistle for every little thing and some would let some things pass. Most clubs were happy with this but at the very top of the game, players would complain about inconsistent refereeing (only when they lost. You never heard them complain when some 'inconsistent' refereeing was to their advantage). In the 1994 world cup and as a result of the appalling exhibition of cheating, gamesmanship and bad behaviour of Argentina in Italia '90 (especially that smelly greasy cheating drug addict c*** Maradona), FIFA clamped down and took away refereeing discretion. They gave orders that referees WILL yellow card players for so and so or give free kicks for this or that. With FA observers sitting in the grandstands watching the refs performance, referees no longer had any choice but to toe the line.

This has led to a situation where referees often have to give free kicks or penalty kicks or issue yellow and red cards for innocuous offences or borderline cases. In turn, this has led to players actively seeking to take advantage of any little situation and attempting to pressure referees into applying the letter of the law. We hear commentators talking about 'contact'. In other words, if the defender makes the slightest touch on the ball carrier, and he goes to ground the referee has no option to interpret that as a foul, even though the so called contact was negligible and in no way constituted a trip or push that could possibly produce a swallow dive with two toe loops and a triple salko!! Players will nowadays surround the referee waving imaginary cards, demanding that an opponent be punished, even if the offence was feigned. Typical south american behaviour which has infected the European game. The worst thing we ever did was let foreigners into the english game.

Players now spend a lot of time in training, not working on their playing skills, but on their ability to 'win' free kicks and penalties, and how to intimidate match officials into giving them advantages they haven't earned and don't deserve. And it is all possible because FIFA set rules in place that demand the letter of the law be followed.

This is how letter of the law has spoiled football. Letter of the law is a cheats charter because it denies the referee the ability to use his discretion or apply his wide experience of the game.
jmo On April 29, 2021
Beruset af Julebryg





Yorkshire, United Kingdom
#18New Post! Aug 06, 2011 @ 09:42:15
I thought M.S. Dhoni made a good decision, I mean Bell was a bit of a Bell-End by being silly enough to walk off before Tea was called and before he knew the ball was dead but at the same time it was poor luck that had him run out rather than poor play.

Good to see the spirit of the game upheld by the Indians.

Also, good to see England get another good win. Looking forward to the third Test now.
Jennifer1984 On July 20, 2022
Returner and proud





Penzance, United Kingdom
#19New Post! Aug 08, 2011 @ 15:46:17
Welcome back Geoff. I've missed your input on discussions lately. Third test should be good. India have Sehwag and Zaheer fit again so they will be strengthened in both batting and bowling. I so hope Sachin gets his hundredth hundred. That would be a marvellous achievement and I'm sure there would be plenty of Indian fans in Edgbaston to see it.

If England win this test they will finish the series as world number one, so that would be good too. Bring it on
Leon On December 21, 2023




San Diego, California
#20New Post! Aug 08, 2011 @ 15:59:25
@Jacquesmetat Said

Reading the posts on this thread makes me think of the way football is refereed now. When I quit playing I became a referee and officiated in games for seven years. When I started out, referees had discretion and could apply what Jennifer calles the spirit of the game. Being a former player, I knew what goes on in a game and I could tell the difference between accidental incidents and malice. I could 'read' the play and I used my experience. That was how football was refereed from the top level of the old first division to the local parks leagues. Players didnt attempt to cheat because they knew the ref wasnt stupid and wasn't easily conned. In fact, there were situations in matches where referees would see a player trying it on and card the cheat. That's justice.

One of the problems with this though, was that it led to inconsistency. one ref might yellow card somebody for something and others would be more lenient. Some would whistle for every little thing and some would let some things pass. Most clubs were happy with this but at the very top of the game, players would complain about inconsistent refereeing (only when they lost. You never heard them complain when some 'inconsistent' refereeing was to their advantage). In the 1994 world cup and as a result of the appalling exhibition of cheating, gamesmanship and bad behaviour of Argentina in Italia '90 (especially that smelly greasy cheating drug addict c*** Maradona), FIFA clamped down and took away refereeing discretion. They gave orders that referees WILL yellow card players for so and so or give free kicks for this or that. With FA observers sitting in the grandstands watching the refs performance, referees no longer had any choice but to toe the line.

This has led to a situation where referees often have to give free kicks or penalty kicks or issue yellow and red cards for innocuous offences or borderline cases. In turn, this has led to players actively seeking to take advantage of any little situation and attempting to pressure referees into applying the letter of the law. We hear commentators talking about 'contact'. In other words, if the defender makes the slightest touch on the ball carrier, and he goes to ground the referee has no option to interpret that as a foul, even though the so called contact was negligible and in no way constituted a trip or push that could possibly produce a swallow dive with two toe loops and a triple salko!! Players will nowadays surround the referee waving imaginary cards, demanding that an opponent be punished, even if the offence was feigned. Typical south american behaviour which has infected the European game. The worst thing we ever did was let foreigners into the english game.

Players now spend a lot of time in training, not working on their playing skills, but on their ability to 'win' free kicks and penalties, and how to intimidate match officials into giving them advantages they haven't earned and don't deserve. And it is all possible because FIFA set rules in place that demand the letter of the law be followed.

This is how letter of the law has spoiled football. Letter of the law is a cheats charter because it denies the referee the ability to use his discretion or apply his wide experience of the game.



Well written, and interesting points. If this change has spoiled football, then how would you instead have addressed the issue that referees were inconsistent at the top level before the change?
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