The Forum Site - Join the conversation
Forums:
Politics

So, students can't afford tuition fees, eh?

Reply to Topic
AuthorMessage
Pages: << · 1 2 3 4
jonnythan On August 02, 2014
Bringer of rad mirth


Deleted



Here and there,
#46New Post! Apr 12, 2011 @ 14:55:10
@Jacquesmetat Said

Ah right, so by sheer numbers alone I'm supposed to give in to a bunch of loony lefties who dream up numbers, who weren't there when the riots took place, and don't even live in the f***ing country for crying out loud. Note the locations of the ones who claim to think they know it all. USA, Ireland and Scotland. What do they know?

I repeat what I said earlier. I was in central london on the day the millbank building was occupied. I saw it first hand. I was in the middle of the city on that day, as things happened around me. I think I know a bit more about it than some bloody american who is on the other side of a 3000 mile wide ocean.


Your entire first post was about the hypocrisy of students complaining about tuition hikes of thousands of pounds while spending a few hundred to go get drunk in a foreign country on vacation.

This is an intellectually bankrupt statement. The students who can afford to fly away for spring break are generally not the ones who can't afford tuition, and the comparison is silly anyway because the tuition increases dwarf the costs of this sort of one-time trip.
Rehabilitation_Please On May 20, 2016
Has Tiger Blood





Peterborough, United Kingdom
#47New Post! Apr 12, 2011 @ 14:56:31
@Jacquesmetat Said

Ah right, so by sheer numbers alone I'm supposed to give in to a bunch of loony lefties who dream up numbers, who weren't there when the riots took place, and don't even live in the f***ing country for crying out loud. Note the locations of the ones who claim to think they know it all. USA, Ireland and Scotland. What do they know?

I repeat what I said earlier. I was in central london on the day the millbank building was occupied. I saw it first hand. I was in the middle of the city on that day, as things happened around me. I think I know a bit more about it than some bloody american who is on the other side of a 3000 mile wide ocean.


Again going off on another tangent but hey...

By all means defend your opinions, but when you have to resort to mocking people because their opinion is differant with insults that have absolutly nothing to do with your original post make you look for lack of a better word an arse.
mark_is_god On June 26, 2015




antrim, Ireland
#48New Post! Apr 12, 2011 @ 15:00:13
@Jacquesmetat Said

And being one achieves even less. in truth, it doesn't matter what anybody says, people on here wouldn't concede a point if it was loaded into a twelve bore shotgun and fired up their arse. All you can do is argue your corner and ignore the numpties who make up figures to back up arguments they know sod all about.



i'm perfectly willing to change my views it beats being stubborn and acting like a fool.

fact is the figures i quoted are all facts, they are all easily backed up by several news sources, a quick Google would show that.

you can believe whatever you want, im perfectly happy saying you're wrong as i have the facts too back up my views.
Jacquesmetat On August 01, 2012




Out on the 'oggin, United King
#49New Post! Apr 12, 2011 @ 15:07:01
@mark_is_god Said

i'm perfectly willing to change my views it beats being stubborn and acting like a fool.

fact is the figures i quoted are all facts, they are all easily backed up by several news sources, a quick Google would show that.

you can believe whatever you want, im perfectly happy saying you're wrong as i have the facts too back up my views.



I'm quite sure you could produce any statistics from any source but that doesnt make them facts. What is that proverb about lies, damned lies and statistics? I repeat again, seeing as it doesn't seem to be able to penetrate your skull. I was there, mate. I saw what was happening. I saw plenty of rioting and no arresting. The poor bloody coppers were just trying to prevent that rabble spreading around to do even more damage. just because there were no arrests doesnt mean it didnt happen. Of course you wont listen to that. You dont want to hear it so you put your fingers in your ears and hum. No, no, no. There isn't a convenient number that I like written down anywhere so it didn't happen, lalalala.

You can call me any fool you like. I dont give a s***. but I know what I saw.
mark_is_god On June 26, 2015




antrim, Ireland
#50New Post! Apr 12, 2011 @ 15:14:06
@Jacquesmetat Said

I'm quite sure you could produce any statistics from any source but that doesnt make them facts. What is that proverb about lies, damned lies and statistics? I repeat again, seeing as it doesn't seem to be able to penetrate your skull. I was there, mate. I saw what was happening. I saw plenty of rioting and no arresting. The poor bloody coppers were just trying to prevent that rabble spreading around to do even more damage. just because there were no arrests doesnt mean it didnt happen. Of course you wont listen to that. You dont want to hear it so you put your fingers in your ears and hum. No, no, no. There isn't a convenient number that I like written down anywhere so it didn't happen, lalalala.

You can call me any fool you like. I dont give a s***. but I know what I saw.


eh no i couldn't produce any statistic, i can't make up how many people were arrested or how many people entered mill-bank building.

and just because you were there doesn't give you some omnipotent view on what happened, you couldn't possibly keep track of all 50000 people.

and besides this was one protest there were plenty more, and the story is the same the majority of protesters were peaceful, the minority were not.
the media focus on the minority, as it makes better news and the fools lap it up.
Rehabilitation_Please On May 20, 2016
Has Tiger Blood





Peterborough, United Kingdom
#51New Post! Apr 12, 2011 @ 15:14:28
@Jacquesmetat Said

I'm quite sure you could produce any statistics from any source but that doesnt make them facts. What is that proverb about lies, damned lies and statistics? I repeat again, seeing as it doesn't seem to be able to penetrate your skull. I was there, mate. I saw what was happening. I saw plenty of rioting and no arresting. The poor bloody coppers were just trying to prevent that rabble spreading around to do even more damage. just because there were no arrests doesnt mean it didnt happen. Of course you wont listen to that. You dont want to hear it so you put your fingers in your ears and hum. No, no, no. There isn't a convenient number that I like written down anywhere so it didn't happen, lalalala.

You can call me any fool you like. I dont give a s***. but I know what I saw.


So the statistics in your first post are not fact?

Damned lies and statistics
Jacquesmetat On August 01, 2012




Out on the 'oggin, United King
#52New Post! Apr 12, 2011 @ 15:15:08
@jonnythan Said

Your entire first post was about the hypocrisy of students complaining about tuition hikes of thousands of pounds while spending a few hundred to go get drunk in a foreign country on vacation.

This is an intellectually bankrupt statement. The students who can afford to fly away for spring break are generally not the ones who can't afford tuition, and the comparison is silly anyway because the tuition increases dwarf the costs of this sort of one-time trip.





Oh, so you know each individual there in person do you? Wow, you get around, mate. and if you knew anything about the student fees programme, which you don't and haven't even read my previous post about, you would know that nobody is being charged anything up front.

Yep. No money up front. Nil. Nada. Zip. f*** all.

Nobody pays anything until AFTER they have graduated and are earning a minimum of £25'000, which is about $32'000-ish. Nobody is taking poor little students and breaking their arms to squeeze money out of them now. they wont have to pay anything back until they are EARNING.

I hope that message has penetrated now.

but if they dont pay their own fees, who is going to pick up the tab? Joe Taxpayer, thats who. And I am one such taxpayer. Not Elmer in the US of A, not paddy in Antrim, not Jock in Edinburgh. Me. Mr Middle England in Hampshire.

I kind of think I have every right to have any say I like on the issue. I'm paying for it.
Jacquesmetat On August 01, 2012




Out on the 'oggin, United King
#53New Post! Apr 12, 2011 @ 15:18:49
@mark_is_god Said

eh no i couldn't produce any statistic, i can't make up how many people were arrested or how many people entered mill-bank building.




Hold on, you said these were facts, and yet, you (or somebody on here) can't even produce the statistics you (they) claim are facts.

They are either supportable, sustainable facts or they are made up numbers. I know what I think.
mark_is_god On June 26, 2015




antrim, Ireland
#54New Post! Apr 12, 2011 @ 15:21:32
@Jacquesmetat Said

Hold on, you said these were facts, and yet, you (or somebody on here) can't even produce the statistics you (they) claim are facts.

They are either supportable, sustainable facts or they are made up numbers. I know what I think.



i said i couldn't produce "any" statistic in other words i was stating i couldn't make up statistics,

i can obviously produce and backup the ones i quoted
MonkeyMadness On April 08, 2015
Lord of your mum





Big Tree, United Kingdom
#55New Post! Apr 12, 2011 @ 16:00:19
@Jacquesmetat Said

ok, let me explain:

News reports



Let me stop you there.

A tabliod that makes s*** up and is Tory supporting reported it, not the news.
treebee On April 13, 2015
Government Hooker

Moderator




London, United Kingdom
#56New Post! Apr 12, 2011 @ 17:02:41
nobody f***ing told me about the party in Salou.

Seriously arent people bored of reading this s***? Its manipulation at its absolute worst. Its a backlash against a few idiotic anarchy groups who caused trouble in an otherwise entirely peaceful demonstration against tuition fees.

Dont, please dont let this happen. Dont read something in a tabloid without even questioning it. Dont let the media control your vote.
Jennifer1984 On July 20, 2022
Returner and proud





Penzance, United Kingdom
#57New Post! Apr 13, 2011 @ 06:01:33
It looks like I missed quite a row yesterday. Ho hum...

But it's precisely the very thing I was talking about at the time of the demonstrations. Although I believe the students have a case, and the tuition fees issue is something worth fighting, the way they went about it was tactically a complete and utter mess.

What happened at those demonstrations played completely into the hands of the coalition government and gave Cameron all the ammunition he needed to tell Middle England that the Government was not going to be blackmailed by violent hooligans.

I agree totally that it was only a small proportion of the overall number of demonstrators that took part, but it was the proportion that Sky News (owned by News International, who also own The Sun, by small coincidence), the BBC and all the other news agencies beamed into the living rooms of Middle England as Tory voters were coming home from work, having spent their day earning a living and paying taxes.

Jacquesmetat's (JMT) response was entirely predictable, and I am of the firm opinion that he is not the only one of his age, social group and earnings bracket (collectively known as "Middle England" ) who feels the same.

I checked out JMT's profile and have seen some of his other posts. I see a man who has served in the Armed Forces, is a middle aged family man, who lives in a comfortable, well off suburb of a city that is overwhelmingly populated by military personell / workers. Heck..... I even lived in Gosport when I was a student at Portsmouth University..!!! I had student digs in that very town and I can tell you all that a more hard line, right wing, Thatcher-loving constituency probably doesn't exist anywere else in the country.

Hey, get this.... Go into Gosport public library and you will see the photos of Margaret Thatcher's visit to the town in the 1990's. The crowds lined the streets, cheering and waving flags... they still revere her today.

This is the sort of Middle England that the students are upsetting and when the pictures of violence on the streets of London become the sharp focus of the news, the message of the demonstration is lost.

The NUS allowed this to happen. They didn't take any steps whatsoever to prevent anarchists from infiltrating the demo, they did next door to nothing to keep the marchers on their route. They were too interested in getting as many numbers onto the streets as possible for a big, spectacular show of strength and, worse than that, the hard left wing of the Union went on BBC Radio before the first demo positively exhorting anyone.... anybody... to come along and "Smash the Tory Government".

After the first demo, hard liners were back on Radio 5 Live gleefully exclaiming "Direct Action is a right, and if you think yesterday was a show of force, you aint seen nothing yet".

I despair..!! What sort of message does that send out to the JMT's of this world..?? You tell me..

The damage that these things do to the Student cause is massive and yet....... I then see yesterday's discussion (if you can call it that) and you are all calling the bloke stupid..!! As if that is going to persuade him to change his mind..!!

Do any of you think that he is going to tell his mates at the golf club that he was wrong about the students, how it is all a set up by The Sun, and well, I suppose we should let the tiny minority let off steam, after all, their cause is just... Do you really think that is going to get across to the social group that has the most influence with the Government..? Do you really..?

Middle England is the backbone of the Conservative Party. When "Angry of Hampshire" fizzes his outraged emails, or letters or tweets to Tory HQ, the government takes notice of places like Gosport.

Do you think for one moment that the government is going to listen to the opinions of moderates in Scotland..? There are no Tory votes in Scotland, so they don't listen to JMO (not picking on you, my friend, just making an example for discussion's sake) or others who support the students. They listen to the outraged howls of their supporters and they say "No, we can't give in to the Students. Tuition fees stay". The cause is then lost.

If the student protests are to continue (and I hope they do, because their cause is just), the NUS have to get a grip. The students have to police themselves better. No wearing hoodies and face masks.... the cameras zoom right in on that.... they have to winkle out the anarchists, agitators and agents provocateur and hand them over to the nearest copper. Doing so would send a message to the troublemakers that they are not welcome and that the crowd is no hiding place for them.

The NUS have to control numbers, ensure the demonstration proceeds along the planned route and co-operate with the police in stopping breakaway groups from causing mayhem. The NUS has to sort out its own hard liners who want to turn a legitimate cause into Scargill-esque insurrection.

Oh, and as for the Sun article at the link.... that's just a piece of typical Sun mischief making. They do that all the time. That should just be ignored, but again, it isn't aimed at the thinking, liberal minded... it is deliberately targeted at Middle England and the lowbrow.... And it works.
buffalobill90 On July 12, 2013
Powered by tea





Viaticum, United Kingdom
#58New Post! Apr 13, 2011 @ 09:54:43
@Jacquesmetat Said

But they have got plenty of money for this


https://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/features/3522118/8000-students-in-Salou-booze-up.html

These leeching little scroats riot and cause mayhem in London because they say they can't afford their tuition fees and they expect people like me to pay for them to go to university. They dont have any trouble finding money to piss up the wall do they?

I'm with Cameron. Make 'em pay. No public funds for tuition fees. If they can get up off their lazy arses to go pissing up in spain (in between bouts of rioting in London), then the little s***s can get a job and earn their way through university. A bloody good dose of work ethic wont do em any harm at all.



Ah, the Sun. The Conservatives' ever-loyal propaganda machine. Just what the government needs at the moment: demonisation of students so that the working classes will support the tuition fee hikes which will keep their children out of higher education. Right-wingers are experts at convincing poor people that small government is good for them by providing them with scapegoats and folk devils.
jmo On April 29, 2021
Beruset af Julebryg





Yorkshire, United Kingdom
#59New Post! Apr 13, 2011 @ 10:56:14
@Jennifer1984 Said
There are no Tory votes in Scotland, so they don't listen to JMO (not picking on you, my friend, just making an example for discussion's sake) or others who support the students. They listen to the outraged howls of their supporters and they say "No, we can't give in to the Students. Tuition fees stay". The cause is then lost.

.



There are some, just not many. But worth noting that even the Scottish Conservatives Manifesto in the run up to the Scottish Election is rejecting any introduction of tuition fees up here which is interesting.

Annabel Goldie (Scottish Tory leader) is a very good politician and whilst I don't agree with her ideologically she is one of few Conservatives I would quite like to see do well in Scotland.

Also whilst I'm hear f*** the NUS.
Reply to Topic<< Previous Topic | Next Topic >>
Pages: << · 1 2 3 4

1 browsing (0 members - 1 guest)

Quick Reply
Politics Forum - Some Rudeness Allowed

      
Subscribe to topic prefs

Similar Topics
    Forum Topic Last Post Replies Views
New posts   Politics
Tue Aug 04, 2009 @ 18:46
15 736
New posts   Entertainment
Wed May 16, 2007 @ 22:16
35 1438
New posts   Random
Thu Sep 22, 2005 @ 07:19
2 270