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Anti-mosque protests on the rise, say Muslim advocates

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nooneinparticular On March 16, 2023




, Hawaii
#76New Post! Sep 10, 2010 @ 00:34:11
@bob_the_fisherman Said

Well, it is mentioned in many places in the koran that failure to give in the 'cause of allah' is something that is done by the hypocrites, who are also labelled zalimun - that is, wrong doers and criminals... the place is fire, and doom shall be their abode, it is to them a disgrace and painful chastisement (to quote the koran).

But specifically, this is a pretty good one, because it is from the very last revelation given to Mohammad.

The reference is Surah 9 verses 38-49. (I am abridging this to remove the repetitive waffle that fills the koran, and capture the essence of his words.)

Oh you who believe! What is the matter with you that when you are asked to march forth in the 'Cause of allah' (jihad), you cling heavily to earth? Are you more pleased with this life than the life of the hereafter? If you do not march forth, allah will punish you with a painful torment and replace you with another people. [...]

March forth whether you are young and healthy, or old, ill and poor, and strive hard with your wealth and lives in the 'Cause of allah'... Had the booty been near, they would have gone with you (Mohammad), but the distance was too long for them...

Those who believe in allah and the Last Day would not ask your leave to be exempt from fighting with their properties and their lives; and allah is all knower of the pious.


They believe that their god will protect them, therefore anyone who fears battle does not truly believe in god. Its a stupid idea, but not an evil one.

Quote:

It is only those that disbelieve in allah and the last day that seek to be exempt from jihad... [some of them say] "grant me leave to be exempt from jihad), and do not put me into trial. And surely, hell is surrounding the disbelievers.


If this is what I think it is, then it is changed from the text I found online.

'Among them is (many) a man who says: "Grant me exemption and draw me not into trial." Have they not fallen into trial already? and indeed Hell surrounds the Unbelievers (on all sides).' (Surah 9:49)

Based on my text, its hard to say whether the writer meant that hell would come up and take them, or if they already were living in a hell of their own creation. (difference between literal and figurative)

Quote:

Add to this, allah's insistence that people obey allah and his messenger or face eternal hell (which is kind of the running theme of the whole text), and, the explicit instruction of Surah 2:85, that, if you only believe or obey a part of scripture you will go to hell, the case is pretty clear.


That sounds oddly familiar to Christian edicts...

Quote:

There are other places where allah speaks of people not spending in the cause of allah - and his anger at them.



Certainly... Turning your back on the enemy leads to hell is found here: Surah 8:15-16. Oh you who believe! When you meet disbelievers on the field of battle, never turn your back to them. Whoever turns his back to them - unless it is a strategy of war, or, to return to his own troops,has indeed wrath upon himself from allah. And his abode is hell, and worst indeed is that destination!




Quote:


On taqiyya:

Volume 4, Book 52, Number 268:

Narrated Abu Huraira:

Allah's Apostle called,: "War is deceit".

Volume 4, Book 52, Number 269:

Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah:

The Prophet said, "War is deceit."

Volume 4, Book 52, Number 270:

Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah:

The Prophet said, "Who is ready to kill Ka'b bin Al-Ashraf who has really hurt Allah and His Apostle?" Muhammad bin Maslama said, "O Allah's Apostle! Do you like me to kill him?" He replied in the affirmative. So, Muhammad bin Maslama went to him (i.e. Ka'b) and said, "This person (i.e. the Prophet) has put us to task and asked us for charity." Ka'b replied, "By Allah, you will get tired of him." Muhammad said to him, "We have followed him, so we dislike to leave him till we see the end of his affair." Muhammad bin Maslama went on talking to him in this way till he got the chance to kill him.


Are these considered original holy books, or are these books interpretations of the quran?

Quote:

At the beginning of Surah 9, allah tells Muslims that they are not held to account for any treaty they sign with kafirs. Surah 9:1 Freedom from all obligation from allah and his messenger is declaredto those mushrikun (disbelievers, criminals) with whom you have made a treaty....


This one is just outright deception on your part.

The passage continues to say,

'(But the treaties are) not dissolved with those Pagans with whom ye have entered into alliance and who have not subsequently failed you in aught, nor aided any one against you. So fulfil your engagements with them to the end of their term: for Allah loveth the righteous.'(surah 9:4)

The treaties are not to be broken, if the pagans did not betray you in any way. That seems fair, doesn't it?

Quote:

Muslims are, elsewhere, encouraged to use all tactics in war (I will try to find that verse), however, I think this stuff from the hadith gives the general flavour of Islam as betrayal quite satisfactorily...

Note Mohammad saying war is deceit - and giving permission to his minions to lie.


Please find these.

Quote:

Add into this, the fact that Mohammad signed a peace deal with the people of Mecca, and then went in and killed everyone, included people with whom he had been allies.

This openly says that lying is ok...


What was the political situation between these two areas in the past? Was the attack unprovoked? What exactly happened, in the correct sequence of events? All throughout history, there are stories of allies becoming enemies, sometimes overnight. Most of them usually have some reasoning behind it. We must understand both sides to get the full picture.

Quote:

The two combined, make it clear, especially when coupled with the koranic text, that taqiyya is a good thing for the Muslim to engage in.

That is further endorsed when you understand that the Muslim can pretend to like the kafir, but must hold hatred or animosity towards us in his heart.

Al-Tabari's (d. 923) famous tafsir (exegesis of the Koran) is a standard and authoritative reference work in the entire Muslim world. Regarding 3:28, he writes:
"If you [Muslims] are under their [infidels'] authority, fearing for yourselves, behave loyally to them, with your tongue, while harboring inner animosity for them. ? Allah has forbidden believers from being friendly or on intimate terms with the infidels in place of believers ? except when infidels are above them [in authority]. In such a scenario, let them act friendly towards them."
From https://www.wikiislam.net/wiki/Lying_for_Islam_%28taqiyya%29#cite_note-Tafsir_Ibn_Kathir-3


Is this a comentary in refrence to the stated quran passage, 3:28? Cause if it is, it has almost no relavence to the actual passage.

Sources here
and here
bob_the_fisherman On January 30, 2023
Anatidaephobic





, Angola
#80New Post! Sep 15, 2010 @ 12:05:36
@nooneinparticular Said

Please find these


Sahih Bukhari: Volume 4, Book 52, Number 268:

Narrated Abu Huraira:

Allah's Apostle called,: "War is deceit".


______________________________________________

Volume 4, Book 52, Number 269:

Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah:

The Prophet said, "War is deceit."
___________________________________________________

Volume 4, Book 52, Number 270:

Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah:

The Prophet said, "Who is ready to kill Ka'b bin Al-Ashraf who has really hurt Allah and His Apostle?" Muhammad bin Maslama said, "O Allah's Apostle! Do you like me to kill him?" He replied in the affirmative. So, Muhammad bin Maslama went to him (i.e. Ka'b) and said, "This person (i.e. the Prophet) has put us to task and asked us for charity." Ka'b replied, "By Allah, you will get tired of him." Muhammad said to him, "We have followed him, so we dislike to leave him till we see the end of his affair." Muhammad bin Maslama went on talking to him in this way till he got the chance to kill him.


You will notice in this Hadith that this man Mohammad bin Maslama lied to Ka'b until he got the chance to kill him. "So what?" you may rightfully say, it proves nothing. This does not suggest that this is the "way of Moahammad". But the next hadith will clear that up.

_________________________________________________

Volume 4, Book 52, Number 271:

Narrated Jabir:

The Prophet said, "Who is ready to kill Ka'b bin Ashraf (i.e. a Jew)." Muhammad bin Maslama replied, "Do you like me to kill him?" The Prophet replied in the affirmative. Muhammad bin Maslama said, "Then allow me to say what I like." The Prophet replied, "I do (i.e. allow you)."


In other words, Mohammad the 'prophet' actually *does* say, it is ok to lie to someone in order to kill them when they are unprepared.

Look at the veneration Muslims hold toward Mohammad - he is the greatest man that ever lived, and seeking to emulate him is a goal of Muslims.

Read between the lines. Is lying in order to kill someone when they are not expecting it ok? Yes. Categorically, undoubtedly, undeniably, yes.

There are more things of this kind too from memory, but honestly, surely this is enough?

Surely, looking at Islam with a hint of suspicion is now at least plausible...

[edit] I will say this again: I am not preaching hate again Islam, merely caution. I do not hate Muslims, and i am not asking others to hate them. However, having said that, to trust them is folly, possibly, suicidally foolish...

Just ask the dead that trusted Muslims in Mohammad's day.
Junkyard_Jim On August 30, 2011

Deleted



Norristown, Pennsylvania
#82New Post! Sep 17, 2010 @ 16:02:15
@hazuki0chan Said

Public protests against three planned mosques have made news in the past week: Former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin joined others in opposing the building of a mosque a few blocks from the World Trade Center site. Hundreds demonstrated against a proposed mosque in a small town in Tennessee (pictured above). And some residents of Temecula, California, are opposing the local Muslim community's plan to build a bigger mosque, saying it could become a hotbed of radical Islam.

Anti-Mosque construction protests on the rise.

Should it be built or not. Discuss.


I also believe the mosque near Ground Zero should be relocated for many of the already stated reasons. The mosques in Tennessee and California are local zoning issues, but if there is no actual issue other than a feeling that Islam is a danger, then that is not valid and the mosques should be built.
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