'No foetal pain before 24 weeks'

Actually the survival rates in the last 20 or so years of babies born below 24 weeks hasn't changed a great deal, whereas with the technology evolving and medical advances the survival rate of babies born after 24 weeks has increased significantly.

Approximately 40% of all babies born before 24 weeks will die in the labour ward, this is before they can even be transferred to SCBU and even then a lot of those babies will suffer for their entire life because before 24 weeks neither their lungs or their brains are fully developed.

If a baby is born alive and breathes independantly then imo they should be helped, however at 23 weeks it's down to the doctor as to whether they feel the baby has any realistic chance of life and what the quality of that life would be and then the doctors make that decision.

Not being funny but a consultant obstetrician will have had years of training not only as a doctor but in obstetrics. They will have 5 years at university studying medicine and then an additional 8 before they are considered for a consultants appointment.

The limit isn't based on whether a foetus feels pain though, it's based on viability.

Although it's not something I agree with as it's extremely rare for someone to genuinely not know they were pregnant until late term.

I hear what your saying but it wasn't the point I was making, what I was trying to say is that some of these babies are being born alive, breathing, and just allowed to die, ethically I find that quite disturbing

If I was in that doctors position and the baby was born breathing and alive then I'd be inclined to help it fight, however I'm not a doctor and really have no idea about the complex treatments that baby would have to go through. It's a tough one really, because the doctors do have a lot more knowledge than any of us do and as mother's I'm sure the majority of people would always chose to try and help the baby, however that baby is unable to speak for itself and therefore the doctors and midwives/nurses need to be their advocate.

It's tricky and isn't a case of the baby was breathing when born therefore it must be saved.

Im sure most doctors would want to intervene but cant if the baby is being aborted, they just have to let it go

Sorry I don't understand. A termination results in the feotus being 'killed' (for lack of a better word) before being 'born' (also for lack of a better word)

There was a phase where the NHS pregnancy tests were just not as strong as the home bought kits. The NHS tests were giving a negative result and because of beuracracu a girl was not considered "pregnant" until the NHS test said so. This meant that often a girl was in the second trimester before there was enough HCG to indicate pregnant. If you was relying entirely on the NHS test you would have been in for a bit of a shock really.

Viability is shortening I think. There was a baby or two who survived from 23 or 22 weeks. Obviously with a lot of support.

Is it right we base it on viability? Im not so sure.

There are exceptions, but there are always exceptions.

I don't agree with the limit being what it is I feel it should be lowered, however I just don't have the justification for it being lowered. I don't think anyone has the justification for it being lowered yet which is why it hasn't been.

I think perhaps adjusting the view so that any pregnancies that are terminated are done in a human way for both mother and foetus, however how do you measure whether a foetus feels pain. Babies and older people have the ability to react to pain by crying, shouting, saying.

I will say this before I start. I agree, it is a personal choice to have an abortion. Down to the individual,

But as far as the baby feeling nothing before 24 weeks (here come the French) but f*** YOU. (Or the people who made the studies)
A child has a heart beat, yes a heart beat at 5 weeks. A baby can move, feel and hear long before 24 weeks. At 21 weeks we are told if the baby will be a boy or a girl. To announce the sex of the child and not acknowledge the life is just backwards. "It?s a girl but not human for another 3 weeks?????? WTF

Don?t get me wrong i used to have the same opinion (it?s just a bunch of cells) but s*** happens and you grow up.

I do agree with this. Sever abnormalities etc...I can see different scenario's playing out. But aborting up a child because it has a heart defect, down syndrome, or because of fetal alcohol syndrome?

Ahh...I'd feel more guilty about that than anything else. I honestly don't know sometimes.

When you're having a termination [think that's the same as abortion, we just tend to say termination where I come from] you have to be strong about it, and not think whether the baby can feel, hear etc. If you're having the termination, it's obviously because you don't want the baby or you won't be able to look after it or whatever the reason may be, it's valid and it's entirely up to you. It's besides the point of what senses the baby has already, thinking about that will only make you feel a whole lot worse. Although, while this may come over as harsh, it's true.

Late term abortions are delivered in exactly the same way as a normal birth, they cant use the evac meathod as the baby is too big by that stage.

My ex-sister-in-law had an abortion at 5 months and she couldn't deal with it for years because she saw the baby [Yes! I said baby] fully formed and she even saw that he was a 'boy'.

They took out of the OR immediately and she still states to this day that they kept the boy alive.

If the baby they pulled out of her after inducing her contractions wasn't a human being than why did he have all parts and the 'professional staff' actually took him to a room to keep him alive???????????

I was told that an abortion could not be done past 13 weeks here unless they've changed the amount of time but one could go to the USA and get one done there after 13 weeks but they'd have to come straight back to Canada and many young women did.

Approximately 50% of those that went to get it done in the USA were hemorrhaging badly by the time they got back to Canada and some died from the bleeding.

I don't have the answer as to why the hospital that did them in the States wouldn't let them stay just to make sure they were physically healed enough to travel and it still boggles my mind that this was taking place......

Elective abortion after 12 weeks is illegal in the U.S. Just FYI.