Causal Determinism:

@Erimitus Said

V: I have looked up determinism and it means everything is predestined and free will is only an illusion.

E: That is an acceptable definition of determinism. I metaphorically defined the causality of determinism as a game of Newtonian billiards on a Euclidian table. If you can find my essay ?Puppet of Fate? it is a brief explanation of some of my ideas on determinism. I am a neophyte in this investigation of determinism and all of my statements are really questions presented for addition and correction. Maybe I will use semicolons instead of periods to show that my ideas are incomplete. Disclaimer: ?I am not an authority on this subject (or any subject) nor do I ever hope to be an authority. I am playing in the sandbox of philosophy while I wait for rigor mortis to set in. All I have to offer is questions.

Hi E, your disclaimer is unnecessary.


V: If that is so then I did not chance upon your thread at all and our discussion here is part of a plan.

E: A plan posits a planer. The gods do not plan, they have no choice. They want homeostasis and that is the direction that they have to take. Volitional action interferes with homeostasis and the gods move things back into a balance that we see as chaos but actually are fractals.

You believe in more than one god? And why do you believe they have no choice? If they are bound by physical laws then to me they are not gods at all, only genies (engineers if you will) As you have mentioned God The God I envision (e a creator) is outside of his creation and is not part of our time and space. But he can interfere at will, is omnipotent. He only allows s*** to happen. Why is another question.
About chaos, I read a whole book about chaos theory and it still didn't explain what or why it actually existed. Small variations in all types of cycles in a system build up to a crucial point where the whole system is destabilised. You are tying your gods into chaos theory? Please explain this more E.
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V: I choose to believe in free will.
E: I like that.

@Erimitus Said

V: At the physical level science seems to infer that time does not exist.

E: time is a measurement;
Time measures intervals between events;
The interval between events depends on the frame of reference of the observer;

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V: ?past present and future exist together.

E: yes, now is the only time that it ever is; Memory happens now, anticipation happens now, sensory perception happens now; There is nothing other than now;

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V: it is interesting to think that I WILL succeed in climbing that mountain or painting that picture because I have already done it.

E: please explain

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V: "Polish" analogy: By my deciding or determining to learn Polish I did incrementally get to a tipping point where I changed the whole parabola my life would follow. Perhaps it is not even necessary to get to a tipping point? Is this not an argument for free will and against Determinism?

E: Yes, you are correct, I did not understand, I still do not understand, please explain.

E: Deciding or determining is a choice, an exercise of free will;
The choosing is an assumption of free will;
If: free will
Then: free will
Cant argue with that.


E: There (is) a point at which force overcomes resistance (tipping point/threshold/point of no return) and at that point the cause becomes the effect;

E: On the simultaneity of cause and effect:
The white billiard ball strikes the colored billiard ball and at that point in space-time cause and effect are the same (i.e. simultaneous);
That point in space-time is the now and the now is the only time that it ever is;
Consciousness exists in the now;


E: If we assume the mind is physical, then it is in the causal chain, and controlled by causality, so actions and thoughts are determined;

E: If the mind is not physical (Cartesian) then it is not in the causal chain and not controlled by causality and there is free will;

E: The question is,?is the mind physical??