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Human nature,, given what we know about it.....

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deal1 On May 06, 2011
SECRET SQUIRREL





not of this earth,
#61New Post! Oct 25, 2009 @ 20:40:37
@buffalobill90 Said

You're not a Rotarian, are you?



Nope, just using common sense.
Not all people in those scenarios follow up with the way they were brought up, but they are more inclined to.
Marcussextus On November 25, 2014




Adelaide, Australia
#62New Post! Oct 25, 2009 @ 21:28:31
That's a very good observation, Deal1, and I'd be a case in point. I was half-raised by my Grandma, and she was a compulsive volunteer. Once I'd recovered from my "bad period", 15-25, I turned to the same thing, and have been doing so ever since. As the Jesuits notoriously said.."Give me the boy and I'll give you the man", lol.
Or perhaps more aptly.."You can take the boy out of the farm, but you can't take the farm out of the boy"
fitzyp On December 23, 2014




Auckland, New Zealand
#63New Post! Oct 26, 2009 @ 07:50:12
@conservativehippie Said

I don't follow how, because A still believes there is someone actually watching, thats the whole point as far as practicality and effectiveness of A's veiw, he/she is in possesion of a natural advantage. Whether or not A makes right decision is another question.


You would think that it might do that but as thee CCTV example showed, people who think/know they are being watched in reality don't act any more moral.

@conservativehippie Said
I do not agree that is a very accurate or practical example, it seems akin to me comparing a human with an sea slug based on the observation that they are both carbon based life forms or that they require water for continued survival.


You have simply asserted that the metaphor was not apt without providing any reason for it.

I thought the idea of the thread was to prove that people who believe in God are likely to be more moral due to their belief that they are being watched and will be punished for their actions...

The CCTV example proved that people who know they are being watched and will be punished do not necessarily act more moral.
conservativehippie On May 20, 2010

Deleted



, Australia
#64New Post! Oct 27, 2009 @ 00:19:44
@buffalobill90 Said

No, that's not what I'm suggesting. I'm saying that human morals are grounded in suffering itself. Nobody wants to suffer - in fact, every human action is essentially geared towards reducing suffering and maximising happiness. If nobody was capable of suffering, there would be no need for morality.




I don't agree. You are implying that humans entirely lack creativity, even if it is purely accidental. If that were the case, we would never have made any technological progress. In any case, everyone has a unique subjective experience of society, so although certain norms do prevail they are only the result of similarity of thinking rather than absolute consensus and conformity.



Y'no Buffalo, I wish you would actually decide which idea you are trying to sell as the grounds for morals, cause all this jumping back and forth from 'societal (reply43)' to 'suffering' leaves me feeling you are grasping for something that you are not sure of yourself.

'morals are grounded in suffering'
Now I find that idea very idealistic, but when I look around the world I wonder what moral (based on suffering) encourages humanity to spend trillions of dollars on space exploration or fashion, or private recreation,,, as opposed to solving problems of famine, war, and disease(massive suffering) in the third world. Do you think this contradicts your proposal (suffering) much, because historically, human behaviour verifies much the same.
Your statement 'every human action being geared towards reducing suffering and maximising happiness',, leaves me wondering if you would think the actions of Hitler, Pol pot, Stalin and other (human) examples like them, somewhat moralistic!!

Ok, nowhere do I imply humans lack creativity, how did you draw that one? Creativity is usually considered more the realm of the arts, not morals.
Morals are not responsible for guiding human technical progress,, this much is patently obvious if you decide to check some of the decidedly immoral progressions humans have come up with. EG mind altering drugs, the porn industry, atomic weapons, torture devices. Also as anyone knows, the Nazi's were probably the most technologically advanced state in the world at the outbreak of WW2 and they didn't win any awards for (advanced morals) did they.

Something else BB, (please don't take this personally, I'm refering to our discussions not 'You' ) I am always offering you real world examples with my arguements, "based on what humans actually do", so far what you are refuting it with something sounding more to me like idealism or relativism. I find it easier and more concrete to discuss what is, as opposed to what might be. Das'all for now... Hippie 8)
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