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Baha'i Apologetics Anyone? Discuss Your Values and Beliefs here

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ronprice On December 23, 2014




George Town, Australia
#1New Post! Jul 08, 2009 @ 13:24:32
Since there are so many questions raised and issues discussed concerning people?s basic assumptions about life, about their philosophy, about their religious beliefs, indeed, about people?s very approach to reality and the way their society goes about organizing things, I seemed like a useful exercise, useful at least to me and hopefully to some others, to say a few things about: "My Position and Beliefs: My Religion." Religion, in the sense I am using it here, is the set of values, beliefs and attitudes each of us has as we go about our daily life at a particular moment in time?at the time of this writing in my case and at the time of the response of a reader in your case. I hope this opening note of some 1300 words provides a general, a useful, a helpful context for any continuing discussion we may have. If the note I strike is too long, I advise readers to just click me off, a simple enough exercise of the hand and the mind.-Ron Price in Australia.
_______________________
Apologetics is a branch of systematic theology, although some experience it?s thrust in religious studies or philosophy of religion courses. Some encounter it on the internet for the first time in a more populist and usually much less academic form. As I see it, apologetics is primarily concerned with the protection of a position, the refutation of the issues raised by that position's assailants and, in the larger sense, the exploration of that position in the context of prevailing philosophies and standards in a secular society, a religious society, indeed, any society past or present.

Apologetics, to put it slightly differently, is concerned with answering critical inquiries and with criticism of a position and dealing with the process, the exercise, in a rational manner. Apologetics is not possible, it seems to me anyway, without a commitment to and a desire to defend a position. Naturally in life, one takes a position on all sorts of topics, subjects, religions and philosophies. Often that position is inarticulate and poorly thought out if given any thought at all.

With that said, though, the activity I engage in, namely, apologetics, is a never ending exercise with time out for the necessary and inevitable quotidian tasks of life: eating, sleeping, drinking and a wide range of leisure activities. The apologetics that concerns me is not so much Christian or Islamic apologetics or one of a variety of what might be called secular apologetics, but Baha'i apologetics. There are many points of comparison and contrast, though, between any form of apologetics which I won't go into here. Christians and Muslims will have the opportunity to defend their respective religions by the use of apologetics; secular humanists can also argue their cases if they so desire here. I in turn will defend the Baha'i Faith by the use of apologetics. In the process we will all, hopefully, learn something about our respective Faiths, our religions, our various and our multitudinous positions, some of which we hold to our hearts dearly and some of which are of little interest.

At the outset, then, in this my first posting, my intention is simply to make this start, to state what you might call "my apologetics position." This brief statement indicates, in broad outline, where I am coming from in the weeks and months ahead. -Ron Price with thanks to Udo Schaefer, "Baha'i Apologetics?" Baha'i Studies Review, Vol. 10, 2001/02.
I want in this second part of my first posting to finish outlining, as best I can, my basic orientation to Baha?i apologetics. Critical scholarly contributions or criticism raised in public or private discussions, an obvious part of apologetics, should not necessarily be equated with hostility. Questions are perfectly legitimate, indeed, necessary aspects of a person's search for an answer to an intellectual conundrum. Paul Tillich, that great Protestant theologian of the 20th century, once expressed the view that apologetics was an "answering theology."-Paul Tillich, Systematic Theology, U. of Chicago, 1967, Vol.1, p6.

I have always been attracted to the founder of the Baha'i Faith's exhortations in discussion to "speak with words as mild as milk," with "the utmost lenience and forbearance." This form of dialogue, its obvious etiquette of expression and the acute exercise of judgement involved, is difficult for most people when their position is under attack from people who are more articulate, better read and better at arguing both their own position and the position of those engaged in the written attack than they are. I am also aware that, in cases of rude or hostile attack, rebuttal with a harsher tone may well be justified, although I prefer humour, irony and even a gentle sarcasm to hostile written attack in any form. Still, it does not help an apologist to belong to those "watchmen" the prophet Isaiah calls "dumb dogs that cannot bark."(Isaiah, 56:10)

In its essence apologetics is a kind of confrontation, an act of revealing one's true colours, of hoisting the flag, of demonstrating the essential characteristics of one's faith, of one's thought, of one's emotional and intellectual stance in life. Dialogue, arguably the greatest of Catholic apologists Hans Kung once puts it, "does not mean self-denial." The standard of public discussion of controversial topics should be sensitive to what is said and how. Not everything that we know should always be disclosed; to put this another way, we don't want all our dirty laundry out on our front lawn for all to see or our secrets blasted over the radio and TV. Perhaps a moderate confessionalism is best here, if confession is required at all?and in today?s print and electronic media it seems unavoidable.

I want to thank Udo Schaefer, "Baha'i Apologetics," Baha'i Studies Review, Vol.10, 2001/2) for some of what I write here. Schaefer, a prominent Baha?i writer, scholar, lawyer and man of many intellectual seasons, emphasizes that one's views, one's faith, "should not be opportunistically streamlined, adapting to current trends, thus concealing their real features, features that could provoke rejection in order to be acceptable for dialogue." To do this puts one in the danger of losing one's identity, if not one?s honesty and integrity.

It is almost impossible, though, to carry the torch of truth, of light, of any set of words in any colour, through a crowd without getting someone's beard singed. if one has no beard one?s emotions can be equally fried and hung out to dry. In the weeks and months that follow, my postings will probably wind up singing the beards of some readers and, perhaps, my own in the process. Emotions, if not fried, are often behind barricades of self-defence and that is natural because what is being considered is at the centre of a person?s life. Such are the perils of dialogue, of apologetics.

Much of Baha'i apologetics derives from the experience Baha'is have of a fundamental discrepancy between secular thought and the Baha'i teachings on the other. In some ways, the gulf is unbridgeable but, so too, is this the case between the secular and much thought in the Christian or Islamic religion or, for that matter, between variants of Christianity or within what are often the muddy and pluralistic waters of secular thought itself.

Anyway, that's all for now. It's back to the winter winds of Tasmania, about 3 kms from the Bass Straight on the Tamar River. The geography of place is so much simpler than that of the spiritual geography readers at this site are concerned with, although even physical geography has its complexities as those who take a serious interest in the topic of climate change are fast finding out. Whom the gods would destroy they first make simple and simpler and simpler. I look forward to a dialogue with someone. Here in far-off Tasmania--the last stop before Antarctica, if one wants to get there by some other route than off the end of South America--your response will be gratefully received.-Ron Price, Tasmania, Australia
chisa96 On December 29, 2014
Supreme Goddess





Out in Nature, Wisconsin
#2New Post! Jul 08, 2009 @ 13:49:36
ok... so what are your actual beliefs? that seemed to be much more focused on debating etiquette than about your actual beliefs...

i just kept reading that expecting you to tell us what baha'i was in the next paragraph... i can read up on it elsewhere though...
scheinmoen On November 27, 2009




, Pennsylvania
#3New Post! Jul 14, 2009 @ 18:01:51
Bah?'? Faith: A world religion, founded in 1844 CE by Baha'u'llah (Glory of God) in Iran. Its roots are based in Islam. With the exception of its beliefs about homosexuality, and the makeup of its Universal House of Justice, it promotes democracy with equal rights to all, regardless of gender, race, nationality, etc. It has spread across the world. Its followers experience heavy oppression in Iran.

https://www.religioustolerance.org/bahai.htm
ronprice On December 23, 2014




George Town, Australia
#4New Post! Aug 04, 2009 @ 05:56:05
Readers can gain information about this new religion in a multitude of ways. I spend a great deal of time sending emails and writing on the internet. It is a world unto itself with its own problems and challenges, advantages and wonders, as I'm sure readers already know. Readers here might enjoy what is, as far as I know, the most extensive analysis of the new Baha'i paradigm of learning and growth. I posted an introduction to the paradigmatic shift in the Baha'i community, the new culture of learning and growth that is at the heart of this paradigm, 18 to 24 months ago. I did this posting at several internet sites. It seemed like a good idea to give readers some specific steps on how to access this now revised article/essay at Baha?i Library Online(BLO).

In that two year period there have been many thousand views of my article at the few sites where it has been posted. In addition to googling "Baha'i Culture of Learning and Growth" and accessing my article in the process, readers can take the following steps to access my article at BLO: (i) type Baha?i Library Online or Baha?i Academics Resource Library into your search engine; (ii) click on the small box ?By author? at the top of the access page at BLO; (iii) type ?Price? into the small box that then appears and click on the word ?Go;? and then (iv) scroll down to article/document item #46 and (v) click on that item and read to your heart?s content. When your eyes and your mind start to glaze over, stop reading. The article can be downloaded free and you will then have access to a revised article, a 150 page, 70,000 word context for all this new paradigmatic terminology that has come into the Baha?i community in the last 13 years.

The statement is a personal one, does not assume an adversarial attitude, attempts to give birth of as fine an etiquette of expression as I can muster and, I like to think, possesses both candour and critical thought on the one hand and praise and delight at the process on the other. I invite readers to what I also like to think is ?a context on which relevant fundamental questions? regarding this new paradigm may be discussed within the Baha?i community. It is also my intention to update this article in the months and years ahead. One of the advantages of the BLO site is the freedom it gives to a writer to update the article right on the site in an ongoing process as new insights from major thinkers in the Baha'i community and information from the elected and appointed institutions of the Cause comes to hand.

If time and the inclination permit, check it out. No worries, no obligation, just if it interests you. You may find the piece of writing too long as I'm sure many readers do. After a few paragraphs of reading, you will get the flavour of the exercise. Just keep reading if your mind and spirit are enjoying the process.
NonSum On October 09, 2009




, Tennessee
#5New Post! Aug 04, 2009 @ 13:16:51
Hi Ron,
R: Religion, in the sense I am using it here, is the set of values, beliefs and attitudes each of us has as we go about our daily life at a particular moment in time

NS: Isn't this more a definition of one's ethics than of "religion"? It seems to lack a spiritual component, which I would have taken as what is most essential to making a religion a religion. Even the irreligious likely have "values, beliefs, and attitudes."

This concept of religion tends to imply that Baha'i lacks a "spiritual" element. Could you clarify this point for me? Thank you.
KAMPA On October 28, 2013
Admiral Karl Donuts





Uhlan Bator, Mongolia
#6New Post! Aug 04, 2009 @ 13:39:55
As a non believer,non follower of any religion I have always couched my polemics,as politely and with as much humor as possible. I would not reject the friendship of any believer,even though many have rejected my friendship based on this contradiction. My opinion is that if belief in a deity has meaning in a persons life,I am in favor of their keeping their beliefs. However many times in these forums I have been struck by the intolerance non belief evokes in believers minds,and the viciousness with which they express the contempt in which they hold non believers.
skottie On September 23, 2009

Deleted



, Texas
#7New Post! Aug 04, 2009 @ 13:48:16
@ronprice Said

Readers can gain information about this new religion in a multitude of ways. I spend a great deal of time sending emails and writing on the internet. It is a world unto itself with its own problems and challenges, advantages and wonders, as I'm sure readers already know. Readers here might enjoy what is, as far as I know, the most extensive analysis of the new Baha'i paradigm of learning and growth. I posted an introduction to the paradigmatic shift in the Baha'i community, the new culture of learning and growth that is at the heart of this paradigm, 18 to 24 months ago. I did this posting at several internet sites. It seemed like a good idea to give readers some specific steps on how to access this now revised article/essay at Baha?i Library Online(BLO).

In that two year period there have been many thousand views of my article at the few sites where it has been posted. In addition to googling "Baha'i Culture of Learning and Growth" and accessing my article in the process, readers can take the following steps to access my article at BLO: (i) type Baha?i Library Online or Baha?i Academics Resource Library into your search engine; (ii) click on the small box ?By author? at the top of the access page at BLO; (iii) type ?Price? into the small box that then appears and click on the word ?Go;? and then (iv) scroll down to article/document item #46 and (v) click on that item and read to your heart?s content. When your eyes and your mind start to glaze over, stop reading. The article can be downloaded free and you will then have access to a revised article, a 150 page, 70,000 word context for all this new paradigmatic terminology that has come into the Baha?i community in the last 13 years.

The statement is a personal one, does not assume an adversarial attitude, attempts to give birth of as fine an etiquette of expression as I can muster and, I like to think, possesses both candour and critical thought on the one hand and praise and delight at the process on the other. I invite readers to what I also like to think is ?a context on which relevant fundamental questions? regarding this new paradigm may be discussed within the Baha?i community. It is also my intention to update this article in the months and years ahead. One of the advantages of the BLO site is the freedom it gives to a writer to update the article right on the site in an ongoing process as new insights from major thinkers in the Baha'i community and information from the elected and appointed institutions of the Cause comes to hand.

If time and the inclination permit, check it out. No worries, no obligation, just if it interests you. You may find the piece of writing too long as I'm sure many readers do. After a few paragraphs of reading, you will get the flavour of the exercise. Just keep reading if your mind and spirit are enjoying the process.



ok, i see. you are advertising your 'new' religion.
ronprice On December 23, 2014




George Town, Australia
#8New Post! Aug 04, 2009 @ 23:50:30
My post, skottie, is about new developments in the Baha'i Faith. The Baha'i Faith is a relatively new religion. At about 150 years of age it is young in contrast to old ones like Christianity, Judaism, etc. And, yes, in some ways, my post is an advertisement for this new religion. The official international website for this religion is: bahai.org, if you are interested in learning about it.-Ron Price, Tasmania
curiouskat On February 16, 2010

Deleted



Adelaide, Australia
#9New Post! Aug 05, 2009 @ 00:03:11
I have seen Baha'i temples popping up here in Adelaide for some time now, they dont seem to advertise or 'recruit', but are open to new followers joining.

Cheers for the info so far guys, very interesting indeed.

I like the idea of unity of all faiths, sounds pretty non-biased from the accounts ive read thus far.
NonSum On October 09, 2009




, Tennessee
#10New Post! Aug 05, 2009 @ 17:09:18
Like CuriousKat, I'm curious. Unlike CuriousKat, I find commercials dull.

Tell me Ron (second response request) what makes your religion something special? What element(s) in it would tend to fascinate the average religious shopper, if any?

Do you have any picturesque goddesses, like Siva's girlfriend, Kali? How about a complex metaphysic, like the Buddhist 'Mind Only' school, or 'Advaitism'? How about a creative (quasi-religious) art culture such as found in Zen? Great stories, like the Sufi's, or Hasids have given us? Profound writers maybe, as found among the Christian mystics?

Where's the Beef, dude?
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