Do you choose animals over humans?

Humans over Animal's .To answer the question asked by the OP in the thread topic, unles the humans are bottom feeding scum.

No i don't! Your being obtuse! I made my point so if you don't get it now then tough!

I've watched the vid ... I see where you're coming from.

Cows are reared for food, cows produce lots of methane, methane adds to global warming, global warming kills people .. therefore meat eaters are choosing cows over human life, go vegan and save the world.

see my post above.

I'm not using double standards here because my position is from a welfare POV, not a rights one. Meaning, I don't disagree with the killing and using of animals, as long as suffering is minimised.

If you live in a heavily dense urban area with little to no parkland, releasing the mouse sometimes isn't the best option. The animal may well go to someone else's house, and perhaps be killed in a more vicious manner. Also, sending it far away displaces it and it will find it harder to survive because it has not established itself.

So sometimes, killing them is the lesser of two evils here.



Oh really? I use simple flyspray. In my house. Where no other creatures are affected, so I don't really know what your point is here.



It has nothing to do with convenience. There are good reasons to kill some animals, for example, population control. If you let them wreck havoc, not only will they wreck your health (and possibly home), but will starve to death because there is simply too much competition for food where it gets to the point that there isn't enough left.

Why do you think kangaroos are culled in Australia?



LOL - I know these people personally. They are not like that. Furthermore, there are always tell-tale signs of animal abuse. If the animal is incredibly frightened of humans, shows marks, just looks generally depressed, etc. Cows have very thick hides, a slight whip to the backside would be merely a tickle - but they don't use whips. They use sheepdogs to herd the bigger animals. It is for their own safety, see, you don't want them attacked by wolves/foxes or exposed to the elements.



Incapacitation does not mean death. You have to take into consideration what is actually happening to the animal while it is still alive, and you are forgetting the obvious anxiety it must feel when put into an enclosure. By killing the animal first, you are eliminating all that. It's a lot more humane, and your snake gets a good feed. Plus, no risk.



Uh huh. And the animal has to go through all that, and the fear beforehand? Pre-killed animals either get put to sleep via CO2 or have their necks broken via cervical dislocation (this is a form of euthanasia done by vets and lab techs which is an instantaneous death). Much better than having to face something that it knows will kill it.

So its ok for a farmer to heard cattle by using dogs that frighten and bite the legs of the cattle. This could go on for years before the cow is finally put out of it's misery. If you know your local farmers so well, then it would be safe to assume that you arent too far off from an unpopulated place that you could release the mice. Giving them a better chance then in the bottom of your trashcan. Lets say they do get eaten by a snake after you release them. Is that any worse then letting their carcass rot in your trash? I dont know if you know much about mice, but they are very resilient. Just because you relocate one doesnt mean it would seek out food and shelter. It still knows whats up and what it needs to do to survive. It isnt just going to crouch down until someone finds it.

Why not use a fly swatter? Why use fly spray, that is bad on the Ozone, contributing to destruction of every ecosystem.

Trust me...You can tell when the mouse is dead. Even if it's eyes buldging, intestines looking like they are about to come out of the backside, and the bones breaking. Seconds go by before the mouse is dead.

Do you think that maybe culling kangaroos wouldnt be necessary if man hadnt killed their predators? The thylacine would have helped keep the kangaroo population under control if it wasnt for man killing them off.

So you dont think about the feelings of livestock, or the effect that aerosol has on the environment, or animals that get too close to your living quarters....but you get all teary when someone feeds a live mouse to a snake that was bred to be snakefood?

Thank you. Someone actually watched the video before posting

Now you're just being stupid.

The dogs don't bite, they bark. The cows are used to it, considering it happens every day and they are nonchalant. They show no signs of fear. It rather just annoys them... liken it to you tickling your dog's paw while he is asleep. He will walk away from you after you do it because it annoys him.



Sorry, but I do not have a car.



What happens in the wild I cannot control, so moot point. Second, I don't even put them into the garbage because it would attract other vermin and make a bigger stink. I dump it in my backyard - where the owls may have a meal. If they don't, the ants will.



They are creatures of habit. They go to the same places where there is food, the same shelter. Dump them in unknown territory, the chances for survival are slim because they do not know of an established food source or shelter. You also need to take into account that its family or pack won't be there, so there is no security. Even other mice are a danger too, they'll fight off other mice that aren't a part of the group.



Your computer right now is contributing to that.

Most fly sprays these days are made to minimise any omissions. This isn't the 80's where we carelessly polluted the air with whatever. New laws have been passed since then thanks to awareness.



How very humane of you. You wouldn't be more cruel if you burned the thing alive.



That is man's folly, but you are being ignorant here. The Thylacine was only located in Tasmania, the majority of the roo population on the actual manland. Kangaroos have NO natural predators, never have. These animals can get quite big, are surprisingly fast and have a mighty kick. I doubt a Tasmanian tiger is going to do much after it is impaled.



Does the fact that livestock are slaughtered for food, and aerosols are used, have any bearing on the ethical aspects of live feeding? No, of course not. It is irrelevant, you are using a typical strawman argument. Nice try, but I do care about livestock, otherwise I wouldn't give a s*** how they died. You can't really mount a argument on aerosols because the pollution produced to give you power for your computer and internet connection are much more potent. As for animals being too close, well then, I could also use a glue trap and toss it into the bin. But that'd make me a hypocrite, wouldn't it? Well no. I'm humane about it.

Live feeding an animal to another animal puts you right there... you're the one who dumped the mouse into the enclosure. It is an intentional, direct action - and you know full well what will happen. It seems that you cannot differentiate between that and something indirect and unintentional. Eating meat, using flyspray... is a far cry from doing an act yourself. You made the conscious effort to put the mouse through it, maybe your snake if it decides to fight back.

Why do you think most zoos do not permit live feeding? After all, are gazelles not natural prey to lions? They are, but the lions get freshly killed gazelle. Or any equivalent. So tell me, how different is this from a rat with a snake in captivity? Rats can suffer as much as gazelles, and the predators don't need them live and kicking.

You say Im being stupid, but you dont know what you are talking about...first, the dogs do bite at the cattle/sheep/whatever they are hearding. They "nip" them on the back of the legs when they wont move. This would be stressful for anything. Second...Just because a Thylacine was dubbed the tasmanian tiger, doesnt mean that it was only in tasmania. It was found on the mainland Australia. If you dont trust wikipedia...then just google it yourself for other websites.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thylacine

Why are you so up in arms about mice that are bred to be food when there are animals going extinct? Check out these videos of the thylacine, just one of many awesome animals that we wont be able to share with our kids.

https://www.naturalworlds.org/thylacine/films/motion_film_footage.htm


Oh, by the way...they are extinct because people killed them off for their own convinience...Just like you do with mice. You blindly throw stones pretty hard for a sinner yourself.

You said that dogs bite them. Do you know the difference between a bite and a nip? I don't think you do.

Wikipedia? You mean, the page that usually lacks resources and is edited at will? Hah.

The Thylacine was predominantly a Tasmanian animal. It was not large enough to take down a roo. But since you live wikipedia so much, here's an excerpt:





Because I care about the issue.

What's that? I can only care about one issue at a time then? Oh dear, guess I'd better stop giving a damn about any acts of cruelty less serious than extinction. Give me a friggin' break.

Why are you trying to change the issue? The Thylacine is already extinct, not much we can do here. Yes, it is bad - but it has nothing to do with the ethics of live feeding, as I had already said. BTW, I am up in arms about LIVE feeding, not mice being bred as food.



People actively went out and hunted them down. That is why they are extinct in the first place, people went too far with it because a few of them were attacking livestock.

I do not do that to mice. I do not go around with a gun, and go out of my way killing every mouse outside I can because one or two happened to s*** in my rice bubbles. The fact that you can even compare the two is ridiculous - you're trying to paint me as some sort of hypocrite but you are failing miserably.

Where exactly have I sinned here? Unlike you, I am consistent in my beliefs.

Herd dogs bite.

No, they do not.

There is a huge difference between a bite and a nip. A bite actually causes damage, farmers do not want their livestock injured.

Ask our sheep.

Thank you Berber...Just because they rarely break the skin doesnt mean it isnt a bite.


Mattyc, admit it...You dont know everything. You also dont know much about farming. Its hard to argue farming with someone who grew up around/worked on farms.

It is argued that the dingo's contributed to the Thylacine's extinction. But they did'nt even hunt at the same times. Not to mention, it is a known fact that they were killed on site by farmers, much like brown bears and wolves in Europe. Depending on what you read, it will say that they were still on mainland Australia after Europeans settled. So talk s*** on wikipedia because it is the first link Ive found. If you were as passionate about thylacines as you are about mouse deaths, you would know they lived on the mainland and kangaroos were part of their prey.


So I guess this is your meaning of life. To kill all the mice before they are thrown into cages. The pet store I bought all mine at sold over 100 live feeder mice a week. Thats a lot of CO2 and neck cracking. Might want to come down and get started. For the people that arent lucky enough to have you kill their mice for them, we will just keep on letting the snake do what it does natuarally. Maybe you should invent something that makes it quick and easy...insert live mouse, press button, pull out dead mouse and put it in the cage. You could probably make a lot of money. Especially if you can get someone like Al Gore or Mel Gibson to endorse it.

As for your argument on fear. Its not uncommon for the mouse to crawl on top of the snake because it doesnt even know it is there until too late.

You are either a hypocrite or an idiot. Ill let you decide. You tried to call me a hipocrite for killing mice for a food source for my pets...you just kill them for your convinience. Looks like someone needs to take a look at the man in the mirror before he goes around throwing stones...Or at least read up on the s*** you argue about.

I've seen healers dangle by their teeth from the haunch of a cow as she runs off. Healers don't give up easily.