The stimulus package is too small

Yeah you're right! NO MORE JOBS! NO MORE JOBS! NO MORE JOBS!!!

The government doesn't make money. They're historically VERY horrible at it anyway. Which I find to be a sad fact since they collect a lot of tax dollars. The government committing itself to foreign powers is not the answer. Jobs in the private sector keep the government afloat.

So how is creating more fiscal responsibility for a power that has proven time and time again that it can not act responsible with money a good idea?

But you know what you're right, lets propose a bill to increase the size and responsibility of the government at least 30% right off the bat. Eventually the government will control every free market we have and no one will have to be responsible for anything ever again. We can call it Obamaism and everyone will live according to their needs and dedicate themselves according to their ability.

That sounds like a Disney dream land come true. I can't wait!



ConfusedWishes

HAHA I'm spreading lies.

May have an example of the lies that I am spreading?

- some raw data near the end of the Great Depression
"1935

* The Supreme Court declares the National Recovery Administration to be unconstitutional.

* Congress authorizes creation of the Works Progress Administration, the National Labor Relations Board and the Rural Electrification Administration. (More)

* Congress passes the Banking Act of 1935, the Emergency Relief Appropriation Act, the National Labor Relations Act, and the Social Security Act. (More)

* Economic recovery continues: the GNP grows another 8.1 percent, and unemployment falls to 20.1 percent.

1936

* The Supreme Court declares part of the Agricultural Adjustment Act to be unconstitutional.

* In response, Congress passes the Soil Conservation and Domestic Allotment Act. (More)

* Top tax rate raised to 79 percent.

* Economic recovery continues: GNP grows a record 14.1 percent; unemployment falls to 16.9 percent.

* Germany becomes the second nation to recover fully from the Great Depression, through heavy deficit spending in preparation for war.

1937

* The Supreme Court declares the National Labor Relations Board to be unconstitutional.

* Roosevelt seeks to enlarge and therefore liberalize the Supreme Court. This attempt not only fails, but outrages the public.

* Economists attribute economic growth so far to heavy government spending that is somewhat deficit. Roosevelt, however, fears an unbalanced budget and cuts spending for 1937. That summer, the nation plunges into another recession. Despite this, the yearly GNP rises 5.0 percent, and unemployment falls to 14.3 percent.

1938

* Congress passes the Agricultural Adjustment Act of 1938 and the Fair Labor Standards Act. (More)

* No major New Deal legislation is passed after this date, due to Roosevelt's weakened political power.

* The year-long recession makes itself felt: the GNP falls 4.5 percent, and unemployment rises to 19.0 percent.

* Britain becomes the third nation to recover as it begins deficit spending in preparation for war.

1939

* GNP rises 7.9 percent; unemployment falls to 17.2 percent.

* The United States will begin emerging from the Depression as it borrows and spends $1 billion to build its armed forces. From 1939 to 1941, when the Japanese attack Pearl Harbor, U.S. manufacturing will have shot up a phenomenal 50 percent!

* The Depression is ending worldwide as nations prepare for the coming hostilities.

* World War II starts with Hitler's invasion of Poland.

1945

* Although the war is the largest tragedy in human history, the United States emerges as the world's only economic superpower. Deficit spending has resulted in a national debt 123 percent the size of the GDP. By contrast, in 1994, the $4.7 trillion national debt will be only 70 percent of the GDP!

* The top tax rate is 91 percent. It will stay at least 88 percent until 1963, when it is lowered to 70 percent. During this time, America will experience the greatest economic boom it has ever known.

ECONOMIC TIMELINE

The following timeline shows the order of economic events during the Great Depression. Notice the effect that deficit spending had on economic growth:

Receipts: Tax receipts as a percentage of the Gross Domestic Product

Spending: Federal spending as a percentage of the Gross Domestic Product

GNP: Percent change in the Gross National Product

Unemp.: Unemployment rate

Tax Federal GNP Unemp.
Year Receipts Spending Growth Rate
-------------------------------------------------
1929 -- -- -- 3.2% < Hoover era, Great Depression begins
1930 4.2% 3.4% - 9.4% 8.7
1931 3.7 4.3 - 8.5 15.9
1932 2.9 7.0 -13.4 23.6
1933 3.5 8.1 - 2.1 24.9 < FDR, New Deal begins; contraction ends March
1934 4.9 10.8 + 7.7 21.7
1935 5.3 9.3 + 8.1 20.1
1936 5.1 10.6 +14.1 16.9
1937 6.2 8.7 + 5.0 14.3 < recession begins, May
1938 7.7 7.8 - 4.5 19.0 < recession ends, June
1939 7.2 10.4 + 7.9 17.2
1940 6.9 9.9
1941 7.7 12.1
1942 10.3 24.8
1943 13.7 44.8
1944 21.7 45.3
1945 21.3 43.7

As you can see, Roosevelt began relatively modest deficit spending that arrested the slide of the economy and resulted in some astonishing growth numbers. (Roosevelt's average growth of 5.2 percent during the Great Depression is even higher than Reagan's 3.7 percent growth during his so-called "Seven Fat Years!" ) When 1936 saw a phenomenal record of 14 percent growth, Roosevelt eased back on the deficit spending, overly worried about balancing the budget. But this only caused the economy to slip back into a recession, as the above chart shows." - https://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/Timeline.htm

Of course but they had something to spend their money on. What is our government going to invest in? Giving people jobs they don't deserve? Keeping people who aren't qualified on some other payroll? If we were gearing up for another world war government spending might be justified because we'd be supplying something in demand. Nothing is in demand right now, and therefore having a supply of everything is just stockpiling things we'll never really need.



I've noticed a trend, whenever a government is deficit spending it is in preparation for war... But I'm sure that has nothing to do with recovery. In recessions we should just deficit spend till we're broke to recover even though we won't be producing any products of worth.





So all that growth of 2%-5% in any given area is worth about as much as salt in the desert. By the 'RAW' data that you've provided the United States didn't recover until they began to borrow and spend in preparation for a coming war. There wasn't anything big enough to jump start the economy until WWII.

What problems did Liberal spending policies help or end?


Hoover tried to combat the Depression with volunteer efforts and government action, none of which produced economic recovery during his term. Why didn't it work for him?

Ending prohibition created a business that could prosper even in the times of the great depression. This time we don't have that option.

Also, why is the chart not complete? Incomplete information can be just as bad as anything else...

One could also argue that the economy was in recovery of it's own and when FDR proposed the New Deal it stifled our recovery and hindered our progress.

Also, how would you explain the boom of the last 20 plus years in which the highest top bracket has been no more than 40% and sometimes as low as 28%. When the rich spend money we all do a little bit better.

Why is it that from 1933-1940 at least unemployment is at 15% or more. We're barely breaking 10% now and we think times are tough, how are we going to feel when this bill goes through and doesn't solve all our problems? If people don't have money they won't spend it however when they do have money they'll spend it liberally.

Why does that simple idea seem to baffle so many?

XOXO
ConfusedWishes

P.S. that is a lot of good material. Thank you.

If the economy was already recovering by the time FDR took office, then why was the GNP and employment on a downward spiral until the New Deal took effect? Maybe it didn't cure the Great Depression, but it slowed it's effects. Also, the unemployment figures are incomplete because it's hard to say how much of it included conscripted military personnel who had to go to war or face jail time (and we all know how much everybody hates the thought of a fascist system existing in America) but anyway, that's why I linked to the rest of the article. Almost all of the manufacturing output during the war that is reflected in the Gross National Product figures went to support the war effort instead of staying here. Hell, nobody built civilian automobiles to be sold on our soil for about 4 years.




And all without flaming anybody...

Perhaps we need to start spending in preparation for WWIII. We can get industry rolling again, and if during the war 10-15% of the world's working age population is killed we won't need to worry about unemployment for quite awhile.

but then who would lend the money to the US to afford a war?

First, raise the rate on US treasury bonds. Second, transfer spending in the stimulus bill from silly things like education and green technologies to military spending. Third, start selling drugs overseas to the countries we plan on invading.

it wont work...just watch.......i guarantee unemployment rate goes up

The new deal failed because it did not spend enough. Only WW2 prompted the government to spend 150 billion dollars; twice as much as ALL previous wars combined. That saved the economy.

If it doesn't, you have to take a video of yourself dancing around in a pink tutu.

You first friend.