On a show called Eistien: It was stated gravity does not attract... But that

skottie,

Are you sure you have not got me confused with the people who actually say empty space can do something?

See, if I say it cannot do anything there is nothing there for it to do something so my logic is sound.

On the other hand if you say empty space can do something you have to show how nothing can do something.

See if you say empty space can do something and cannot explain how then that is making stuff up,ok?

There you have the difference between making stuff up and poking someone in the eye with the truth.

john

john

you are saying that space is empty. can you prove that it is?

if you can't prove it, you are making up the assumption that space is empty.

thus you are 'making up' that space is 'empty'.

i never said anything about what space can do.

i want you to prove to me that space is 'empty'. that is all i want. please shoe me that space is 'empty'. (empty = lacking reality, substance, meaning, or value)

skottie,

I never said empty space had no meaning, what I actually say is the empty space must exist for anything else to exist.

I do not believe I am having this conversation but for you and anyone else who thinks that empty space cannot be proved here is the reasoning.

Let us make this as simple and as painless as possible.

You walk down the road and right in front of you is another person and then there are people all around you so there is no space to move for anyone.

Where are you going to move exactly with no empty space for you to actually move?

If you just remove the empty space in atoms everything would shrink down to microscopic sizes we would not even see.

It is raining ok?

The rain is not coming down in a solid block of water is it?

There is space between the raindrops.

Even science has only one hydrogen atom per square metre of space... have you any idea what that compares to exactly?

Well think of a room the size of earth and one brick in it...that is how full the empty space is exactly.

If space were solid the air we breathe would be solid because there would be no space for you to take a single gulp you would either have to gulp the whole lot or you would not get any.

If space was solid there would not be any particles would there?

All the particles would be joined together as there would be no empty space between them according to you.

We have two particles in space but no empty space between them so what have we got my friend?

We certainly have not got a universe where everything moves have we?

We have not got to the stage where we and every other object can pass through solid walls have we?

john

john,

just because something moves does not mean it has to have empty space to go to.

a rain drop will push air molecules out of the way to fall. the air molecule does not go to empty space. it compresses to the next molecule. to make room for the rain drop to fall. then it can move back into place.

water moves around objects in the same fashion.

there are more things than just hydrogen in space.

i will concite that i can not PROVE there is something in the space between atoms nucleus and the electrons that surround it.

i still say you have not proved that space can be empty. there will always be something there, even if it is just radiation or another form of light

skottie,

Your own post shows you have to make room or space for things to move. If space is full then it is solid, is that what your saying?

john

skottie,

Air is gases, gases mean the atoms and molecules are more widely spaced than in a solid. If you do not have space between them then they are all stuck to each other and become solid.

You cannot push anything anywhere if there is no empty space to start with can you?

So space to you consists of a solid block of matter with no empty space at all?

You may be right, you think everything is solid so for you there is no empty space.

If you think space is jam packed full or particles with no space between them then you have indeed got solid space.

The mass of the universe is a fraction of what it would be if all space was full to the brim, naturally gravity is an illusion as you think there is no space between masses and they are all connected to each other in one solid mass.

This is what you think?

I see.

john

Hello, just another thought.
The scientists are convinced of the existence of "Dark Matter"
and it is thought, ( proved? ) that 2/3 of the matter needed to balance the universe is *missing*.
Now the existence of "Dark Energy" has been established.

Wonder. Where is it? Somewhere that is "empty?"

Greetings. Carl & De Katz

Krazy,

Galaxies should according to Einstein be flying apart as there is not enough mass in them for gravity to hold them together.

Some bright spark suggested that the extra mass was invisble so they did a calculation for how much of this so called invisible stuff they would need to make Einstein correct and called it dark matter.

That is known in the trade as a fix or you may understand it better as a patch.

Then they found the galaxies were all accelerating away from each other expanding the universe which made Einstein wrong again so another bright spark, or it might have been the first bright spark at it again, decided that having got away with one invisible force they could use the same trick twice.

So they calulated the force required to act completely opposite to gravity and called it dark energy.

As you may have guessed the trade calls this another fix.

Now you know about the air that you breathe, well it is made of gases so there is plenty of empty space for it to move around. When a strong wind pushes you down the road that is the air being pressed together and less space so you feel it more.

If there was no empty space in the air it would be solid and you would have to bite chunks off.

Give me strength.

john

Thank you John.
I only know what I read in the funny papers.
Thank you!

skottie,

The stuff that exists in is not the empty space is it?

You are saying every point in space there is matter?

There is no empty space between anything?

I see.

Thank you very much for that brilliant observation.

john

Krazy,

There is nothing funnier than some people posting right here is Disneyland.

john

The whole subject is fascinating. Maybe we are ( i am )too far down the food chain to ever really understand.
Maybe there will be some new and exciting ground broken when the new CERN super ring comes online. I heard that they had a breakdown right at the start.
I wonder. Could things be as *small* as we observe them to be large. Maybe? Just a thought.
How can the speed of light be so slow at 300000000 meters per second.
.... Whew....

Krazy,

I just read your opening post again.

You are correct, if something pushes it cannot be the space it must be something that exists in the space.

Unfortunately there are a large number of people who think there is no empty space at all and everything is one solid block.

john

No doubt John no doubt.

8) Anyway Sir John, thank you very much for your very cogent comments and observations.
Sorry if I looked like I was changing the subject.
( A favorite trick of some types. )
Sorry too if I seemed a dunce, I will content myself knowing that there are far more dense objects in the universe of men too.
No reflection on you Sir.
Thank you again for your inputs.
Over and out. Carl ( & Ming & Jade )