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Retaining your humanity - kind to humans, but not to animals?

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mattyc On March 22, 2013




Toronto, Canada
#1New Post! Nov 21, 2008 @ 07:07:32
This issue cropped up in another thread recently, and I thought that this would be an interesting discussion.

Is it possible to act humanely to humans and not animals and still retain your humanity?

There are people who treat other people well, but not animals - and vice versa. This shows that people have different value systems... however, some people claim that a bit of your humanity would not be lost if you treated your fellow man kindly but treat animals with disrespect. Is this true?

Well, I think it is entirely debatable. I guess it comes down to how one defines humanity in the first place. I for one do not believe for a second that treating both humans and non-human animals well is mutually exclusive... unless you are incapable of multi-tasking.

My personal belief is that pain is pain, cruelty is cruelty. If something can feel pain and/or suffer, then inflicting it in an unnecessary manner is wrong. While to me humans take higher priority, that is no excuse to ignore the welfare of animals, and certainly no excuse just to be cruel either. Sometimes cruelty cannot be avoided for a variety of reasons (may they be right or wrong), so we should minimise it where possible. For each spectrum.

Apart from rare cases such as lions adopting fowls as their own, we are the only species capable of actually caring about other species on a welfare standpoint. I think that to say being inhumane to animals while still retaining your humanity is a big stretch. You know you're being cruel, causing it pain that's not really needed - something that you wouldn't wish to be in. You have that intent in your mind in the first place to be cruel, and going against your basic principles of being kind and not going out of your way to be cruel. Seems like a hypocritical thing to me.

I would say, to retain your humanity, you have to act humanely to BOTH parties. Otherwise you're just being cruel. Thoughts?
BrianM On December 02, 2008

Deleted



Tacoma, Washington
#2New Post! Nov 21, 2008 @ 07:09:00
No
Wheezy_Knight On February 24, 2012

Deleted



Ankh-Morpork, United Kingdom
#3New Post! Nov 21, 2008 @ 08:50:10
I've found animals to be more human than most people.
wynston On March 21, 2014




Swansea, United Kingdom
#4New Post! Nov 21, 2008 @ 11:48:19
This comes down to so many issues, for example if causing pain to an animal is cruel then it is cruel to kill the animal for food, this is going againt our nature as omnivores. The way have evolved is to offset the guilt of killing for food by having big machines and people who do it for us. Do we only love animals because we do not see them as food when they are alive? A lion would probably think a koala is cute but he may starve if he doesnt eat it, so he does. On the other hand we think its cute and dont eat it cos we've got loads of steak in the house waiting for us.

Personally I love animals, if an animal is in trouble I will try to help, but I eat meat, but I dont kill to eat meat.. maybe i help the animals to ease my conscious from a deep down dark guilt we all have from eating them!! Hmm Good question!
lechensko On April 08, 2009




Melbourne, Australia
#5New Post! Nov 21, 2008 @ 15:40:44
It's stupid to say that one is morally sound if he involves himself in inhumane treatment of animals. People who willingly torture animals, I consider barely human. Such behaviour is indicative of a sadistic mindset... your scenario is highly unlikely because those who treat their fellow man well would not usually stoop so low as to torture another living being. Of course, there are exceptions - but in those cases, they're not very good people are they then?

When people treat other people humanely, then they are kind hearted. Very caring. Compassionate. They can afford to show it to animals. Do these sort of qualities sound like something an animal abuser would have? No.

If you treat other people like s***, and animals very well - then you are scum. If you treat animals like s***, and humans well - then you are scum. If you treat BOTH of them well, then you've got plenty of humanity in you. People need to understand that it is not one or the other.
Wingsy On November 26, 2023
wingsdillialicious!

Moderator




Wingsville,
#6New Post! Nov 21, 2008 @ 15:42:37
Ok, look, I love and adore animals. But if there are disease carrying rodents invading my home, uninvited, I'm doing something about it. Whether that means letting the cats have at it, or putting out traps, uninvited critters have GOT to go!
boxerdc On December 18, 2012

Deleted



,
#7New Post! Nov 21, 2008 @ 15:44:14
I agree with you.. How a person treats animals is pretty indicative of how they treat other people.

The only exception is for chickens.. They're stupid and mean, and deserve to die. Plus they taste good fried.
mattyc On March 22, 2013




Toronto, Canada
#8New Post! Nov 21, 2008 @ 15:51:41
@Wingsy Said

Ok, look, I love and adore animals. But if there are disease carrying rodents invading my home, uninvited, I'm doing something about it. Whether that means letting the cats have at it, or putting out traps, uninvited critters have GOT to go!


Killing isn't an issue here, we all do it and can't avoid it. What I talking about here though is unnecessary cruelty. For example - torturing something to death by using a glue trap and letting the animal expire via starvation in your garbage bin.

There are really no buts when it comes to stuff like that.
Wingsy On November 26, 2023
wingsdillialicious!

Moderator




Wingsville,
#9New Post! Nov 21, 2008 @ 15:55:55
I hate glue traps. I think they're disgusting. I don't want to watch the damned mouse struggle to get away. Give me the old metal spring traps any day. (And then my dad to take them out b/c I don't want to touch them )
mattyc On March 22, 2013




Toronto, Canada
#10New Post! Nov 21, 2008 @ 16:01:22
It disturbs me that they are still sold. What were people thinking, ya know? In terms of exposure, such devices are under appreciated - they're one of the worst things you can do to any animal. Holding it against its will, causing it to severely injure itself and making it starve to death.

People like to harp on about fox hunting and seal clubbing, but the use of glue traps is worse IMO. It's beyond cruelty, to something satanic. When I see someone use a glue trap, my thoughts of such people instantly diminish unless they intend to check the trap ASAP and humanely dispatch the animal. Unfortunately some people are either ignorant or don't care, and just throw the animal away into the bin (still alive), as if it were rubbish and not a living, feeling mammal.

That pretty much upsets me the most about their use.
kentoo On October 26, 2010




Salmon Arm, Canada
#11New Post! Nov 21, 2008 @ 16:07:52
I have witnessed cats, dogs, coyotes,weasels and other carnivores catch their prey. From what I have seen they seldom exhibit the consideration that humans have for another creatures suffering. I think that we are the way we are because we use our capacity to reflect on the potential results of our actions.
slinkyfink On December 23, 2008




London, United Kingdom
#12New Post! Nov 21, 2008 @ 16:09:41
I don't see anything wrong with eating animals. It's part of the whole circle-of-life.

How you go about killing them is the important thing. It should be done quickly and painlessly. On the other hand if you got stranded on an island, with no food and were desperate, strangling a koala probably wouldn't seem a bad idea.

In modern society we have the luxury of getting our dirty work done for us. But if you eat it, you're responsible for it. Personally I think everyone who is a meat eater should kill a chicken (or some animal), gut it, cook it and eat it. It's too easy these days, we have no appreciation for the actual animal that it came from.

Now just to throw a couple of spanners in the works...
How does S&M fit into the equation
Is it more cruel to kill a whale than it is to kill a tadpole?


To finish this rambling post off, here's a little song I wrote a while back...

The cow was killed, got put in a box,
the box was sold at the corner shop,
the people smiled and bit right in,
becuse they like the cows new packaging.

When I die they will put me in a box,
label me and try remember who I was

...can't remember the rest.
mattyc On March 22, 2013




Toronto, Canada
#13New Post! Nov 21, 2008 @ 16:09:57
@kentoo Said

I have witnessed cats, dogs, coyotes,weasels and other carnivores catch their prey. From what I have seen they seldom exhibit the consideration that humans have for another creatures suffering. I think that we are the way we are because we use our capacity to reflect on the potential results of our actions.


Yeah, we have the ability to rationalise on a higher level, and have enough knowledge to actually understand what is going on when we do our own actions.
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