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stumblinthrulife On April 16, 2008

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Lake Saint Louis, Missouri
#46New Post! Jun 08, 2007 @ 14:00:55
@jonnythan Said
Thomas Jefferson, the first Superhero, boldly defending our nation from the wackjobs that made up the Philadelphia Convention

I bet Hamilton and Franklin were sleeping in the corner, drool running down their chins

Actually, I just looked it up and was very surprised to learn that Jefferson and Adams were *not* present at the Constitutional Convention and therefore did *not* sign it.


Hmmm, I thought Jefferson signed the Bill of Rights. My first cursory research backed this up, but now I'm not so sure.
jonnythan On August 02, 2014
Bringer of rad mirth


Deleted



Here and there,
#47New Post! Jun 08, 2007 @ 14:17:01
I did some reading about what Jefferson may have thought about the Second Amendment.

Here are some quotes:

"No freeman shall be debarred the use of arms (within his own lands or tenements)." --Thomas Jefferson: Draft Virginia Constitution (with his note added), 1776. Papers 1:353

"It is more a subject of joy [than of regret] that we have so few of the desperate characters which compose modern regular armies. But it proves more forcibly the necessity of obliging every citizen to be a soldier; this was the case with the Greeks and Romans and must be that of every free State. Where there is no oppression there can be no pauper hirelings." --Thomas Jefferson to James Monroe, 1813.

"Uncertain as we must ever be of the particular point in our circumference where an enemy may choose to invade us, the only force which can be ready at every point and competent to oppose them, is the body of neighboring citizens as formed into a militia. On these, collected from the parts most convenient, in numbers proportioned to the invading foe, it is best to rely, not only to meet the first attack, but if it threatens to be permanent, to maintain the defence until regulars may be engaged to relieve them."
--Thomas Jefferson: 1st Annual Message, 1801. ME 3:334

"I think the truth must now be obvious that our people are too happy at home to enter into regular service, and that we cannot be defended but by making every citizen a soldier, as the Greeks and Romans who had no standing armies; and that in doing this all must be marshaled, classed by their ages, and every service ascribed to its competent class."
--Thomas Jefferson to John Wayles Eppes, 1814.

"The constitutions of most of our States assert that all power is inherent in the people; that... it is their right and duty to be at all times armed."
--Thomas Jefferson to John Cartwright, 1824.


And here is the best:

"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms . . . disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes . . . Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
--Thomas Jefferson, quoting Cesare Beccaria in On Crimes and Punishment (1764).


Jefferson clearly envisioned an armed populace to protect the nation, but not solely to protect the nation. He envisioned an armed populace so that it could protect itself from criminals. One of these purposes is somewhat anachronistic - the other is not.
imb4u2 On May 23, 2008




Hamilton, Canada
#48New Post! Jun 11, 2007 @ 14:41:52
"IMO guns should be banned for all but special divisions of police, army members on duty, and people who are registered cullers"
Get realistic. In Canada pistols have been registered since 1934. They are now, under our new gun laws, they are legally almost impossible to get by a civillian and yet this weekend in Toronto & district there have been 3 or 4 people killed by pistols. There are likely 20 times the illegal pistols than legal ones. It takes 6 months to buy a pistol legally and if you qualify under very strict guidelines. It would take the average man about a day to find an illegal gun. Gun laws, like prohibition laws and weed laws are ridiculous, impossible to enforce and even if they stay in place after being legislated do NOTHING to limit crime. If everyone going into a bank, school, airplane or business wore a gun there would be no school shootings, hijacks, bank holdups or. robberys
Quote:
henry_ireton On May 27, 2015




London, United Kingdom
#49New Post! Jun 11, 2007 @ 15:02:39
@imb4u2 Said
Gun laws, like prohibition laws and weed laws are ridiculous, impossible to enforce and even if they stay in place after being legislated do NOTHING to limit crime.


So just to be clear unless a law eliminates a crime it is pointless.

Well that makes sense, why have police well you can simply legislate away human behaviour.


@imb4u2 Said

If everyone going into a bank, school, airplane or business wore a gun there would be no school shootings, hijacks, bank holdups or. robberys



Do you have any evidence to back up this fantastic claim? Thought not.

Owning a gun does not automatically make you capable of using it let alone actually be able to stop a crime. And this is ignoring the fact that the criminals will also have guns...
imb4u2 On May 23, 2008




Hamilton, Canada
#50New Post! Jun 24, 2007 @ 01:01:24
Quote:
If everyone going into a bank, school, airplane or business wore a gun there would be no school shootings, hijacks, bank holdups or. robberys


Quote:
Do you have any evidence to back up this fantastic claim? Thought not.


Henry--- if you were going to hijack a plane and you knew that EVERYONE on that plane had a gun, would you do it????
Quote:
Thought not
mark_is_god On June 26, 2015




antrim, Ireland
#51New Post! Jun 24, 2007 @ 01:26:10
"if you were going to hijack a plane and you knew that EVERYONE on that plane had a gun, would you do it????"

there are some mad people out there.
it would be more effective to as they already do, ban all firearms on planes.
nathster7493 On August 18, 2007




Thornton, Colorado
#52New Post! Jun 25, 2007 @ 20:34:05
@henry_ireton Said
Just a thought but how does the owner know it's about to be bombed? Terrorists only explain their plots in Die Hard films.

There is a much more likely option, he shoots at innocent people whose mistake is to look a bit foreign.

Personally I don't have a problem with gun ownership but I do have a problem with the "If I had a gun the world would be a safer place" attitude. The culprits seem to feel that they are capable of taking snapshot decisions on limited information, shoot with 100% accuarcy and will always be right.

Here is a little test for those that feel they could make the right decision.

You hear shotting and draw your trusty pistol, turning a corner you see someone running from a room. Framed in the doorway is someone raising a gun pointing at the person running away, what do you do?

If police officers that undergo years of training to deal with these situations still screw up I'd hate to be in the same city as these people.


Terrorists sometimes reveal their plots, during 9/11 a terrorist announced (to the wrong people) that it was a terrorist attack. Police Officers may not always be around to help, people took a stand against gangsters and ruthless people with firearms when there was "no law"
So it could happen.
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