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"ARE THE UNITED STATES AND OTHER GOVERNMENT'S GUILTY OF SACRIFICING LIVES IN FAVOUR OF MAINTAINING JOBS IN THE ARMS INDUSTRY"?

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Alkaia On February 05, 2013

Deleted
Banned



naples, Florida
#61New Post! Dec 18, 2012 @ 13:21:35
@Tar Said

Most of the mass murders in the USA in the passed 30 years have been done by people who acquired/accessed guns legally. IMO, a balance needs to be struck in which it is difficult to obtain a gun if you are in a questionable state, but still available if you are a reasonable person. IE, a gun owner should be provably responsible, not just any person who has a pulse.

Mass murders used mostly legal weapons



Youre only looking at mass murders. common sense would tell us that certainly mass murders will be done with guns. However, the article is technically inccorect because a stolen gun from a person who bought it legally then renders that gun obtained illegally. such as the case of the boy who took his moms guns which this article counted as legal. It was not legally obtained by him.

gangs with illegal guns commit the most crimes in this country.

Criminal gangs in the USA have swelled to an estimated 1 million members responsible for up to 80% of crimes in communities across the nation
https://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nation/2009-01-29-ms13_N.htm

and this news isnt even new. I looked and could not find very much non bias data for current stats. however I dont have a lot of time this morning.

with that said. we have a moral decline and regulations wont fix it. criminals dont care about our laws. and the Gov or police dont protct you. they just come AFTER youve been assaulted.
Raymondone888 On January 26, 2013
Rise above the cloud





London, United Kingdom
#62New Post! Dec 18, 2012 @ 13:56:37
@Tar Said
You are incorrect. The strongest instinct in man is the herd instinct, thus the existence of morals and the establishment of self sacrifice as a virtue.


On the contrary, The heard instinct emanates from the need to congregate because there is safety in numbers. The herd instinct is secondary to the survival instinct. Get your facts right.

[/QUOTE=Tar;6392806]This is also incorrect as there are many higher order animals which exhibit morality. Some animals which do this are wolves, elephants, dolphins/orca and some primates among others Animal morality/empathy Humans are not so special


Yes, I agree, but it is only a human that makes a concious decision to make a self sacrifice. Animals do it from instinct.

[/QUOTE=Tar;6392806]The counter-measure for the selfish gene is the empathy gene. Empathy only effects us when we can associate with another. This is done by physical contact thus the fact that seeing children starving and dying on the other side of the planet means nothing to us. If that child looks, sounds, behaves or anything, like someone we know personally, the empathy gene will kick in. If not, the selfish gene will generally rule, however this is only in cases where physical contact and personal interaction is not established. When it is, the dynamic changes.


Seeing children starving and dying on the other side of the planet effects me and many others who don't need to touch them to have empathy. If you don't feel anything for them, it is because you are desensitised or detached emotionally.

[/QUOTE=Tar;6392806]The people who ultimately carry out acts like the columbine shooting, or the recent newtown shooting and such are mentally ill individuals within whom the selfish gene and the empathy gene have failed to generate the functional balance as nature typically instills. The normal effect of this is darwinism. They are selected out of existence and left to die or are killed by general society.


Some are mentaly ill, but others are fueled by anger and rage because they have not been given the tools to handle society in the same way that others can.
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Tar On April 28, 2014




San Antonio, Texas
#63New Post! Dec 18, 2012 @ 13:59:21
@Alkaia Said

Youre only looking at mass murders. common sense would tell us that certainly mass murders will be done with guns. However, the article is technically inccorect because a stolen gun from a person who bought it legally then renders that gun obtained illegally. such as the case of the boy who took his moms guns which this article counted as legal. It was not legally obtained by him.


Precisely the point. The woman who owned the gun is an idiot because she cannot maintain control of her own weapon thus should not be allowed the privilege of owning one

@Alkaia Said

gangs with illegal guns commit the most crimes in this country.

Criminal gangs in the USA have swelled to an estimated 1 million members responsible for up to 80% of crimes in communities across the nation
https://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nation/2009-01-29-ms13_N.htm

and this news isnt even new. I looked and could not find very much non bias data for current stats. however I dont have a lot of time this morning.

with that said. we have a moral decline and regulations wont fix it. criminals dont care about our laws. and the Gov or police dont protct you. they just come AFTER youve been assaulted.


Moral decline? No, its mere social incompetence stemming from lack of education and rises in poverty.

Hows this for an interesting tidbit. Since everyone in USA seems to think Europeans are such passive folks and that is why they have no gun crimes, or violent crimes, know this. Switzerland has one of the highest rate of gun ownership in the world, nearly DOUBLE that of USA, yet they have only 1 in 250,000 murders last year. Thats 34 in their country. Compare that to the incredible number of +75,000 in USA. If my math is correct, that means 1 in 4000... 62 TIMES higher than USA.

Why the difference? Moral decay my ass. The Swiss are very well educated with strong social programs and crime prevention systems. I know. I lived there. Great place to be. Oh, did I mention they are richer per capita than USA as well? Damn socialists...
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Reviso On November 23, 2014

Banned



Trenton, Canada
#64New Post! Dec 18, 2012 @ 14:05:24
But I can't understand how weak people must be so competent in buying either legal or illegal guns.
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Tar On April 28, 2014




San Antonio, Texas
#65New Post! Dec 18, 2012 @ 14:08:38
@Raymondone888 Said

On the contrary, The heard instinct emanates from the need to congregate because there is safety in numbers. The herd instinct is secondary to the survival instinct. Get your facts right.


Nonsense. Herd instinct arises from the fact that we are genetically inclined to protect our genetic pool at the cost of ourselves. I don't know what branch of psychology you studied but its obvious flawed.

As Friedrich Nietzsche said, morality is herd instinct in the individual. Read a book before telling me that I am wrong. Your "safety in numbers" gibberish is utterly immaterial to this argument

@Raymondone888 Said

Yes, I agree, but it is only a human that makes a concious decision to make a self sacrifice. Animals do it from instinct.


More nonsense. I guess you don't know how to read links? Animals do it because they have empathy and higher order reasoning, just like humans. They are the same thus animals have morality. If you are going to imply that animals do it only because its instinctual, then so are humans. Don't try to pull hypocrisy or I'll call you on it.

@Raymondone888 Said

Seeing children starving and dying on the other side of the planet effects me and many others who don't need to touch them to have empathy. If you don't feel anything for them, it is because you are desensitised or detached emotionally.


More nonsense. I don't know where you pick this gibberish up, but apparently you really don't know anything about psychology. Yes, SOME desensitization occurs but the reason for that is that we have no association with these people on the other side of the planet. When an association is created, THEN we'll care. You feel for these people because you have an association with them. I'm not detached or desensitized, I'm merely analytical and I chose to not care.

@Raymondone888 Said

Some are mentaly ill, but others are fueled by anger and rage because they have not been given the tools to handle society in the same way that others can.


Being fueled by anger and rage IS mentally ill...

Really dude, have you actually studied any psychology formally or are you just, you know... talking for fun? I hate to abuse you if you are just venting your thoughts
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Reviso On November 23, 2014

Banned



Trenton, Canada
#66New Post! Dec 18, 2012 @ 14:12:49
@Tar Said

...
As Friedrich Nietzsche said, morality is herd instinct in the individual. Read a book before telling me that I am wrong. Your "safety in numbers" gibberish is utterly immaterial to this argument



.....



Being fueled by anger and rage IS mentally ill...

Really dude, have you actually studied any psychology formally or are you just, you know... talking for fun? I hate to abuse you if you are just venting your thoughts



But then, Derkheim justifies most culture in historical situations by the sense of herding performed for a peace of mind in the human nature. Double whammy...
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Reviso On November 23, 2014

Banned



Trenton, Canada
#67New Post! Dec 18, 2012 @ 14:17:27
Together we don't exist. Life is a sacrificial rite anyway.
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Tar On April 28, 2014




San Antonio, Texas
#68New Post! Dec 18, 2012 @ 14:20:01
@Reviso Said

But then, Derkheim justifies most culture in historical situations by the sense of herding performed for a peace of mind in the human nature. Double whammy...



sociology while related to psychology is still different. Herd instinct instilled in the individual is not a social concept, rather it is a psychological concept which explains the self sacrifice mechanism. Sociology has no tool to explain that because multiple individuals do not jump on a grenade simultaneously.
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Raymondone888 On January 26, 2013
Rise above the cloud





London, United Kingdom
#69New Post! Dec 18, 2012 @ 14:23:13
@Tar Said

Nonsense. Herd instinct arises from the fact that we are genetically inclined to protect our genetic pool at the cost of ourselves. I don't know what branch of psychology you studied but its obvious flawed.

As Friedrich Nietzsche said, morality is herd instinct in the individual. Read a book before telling me that I am wrong. Your "safety in numbers" gibberish is utterly immaterial to this argument



More nonsense. I guess you don't know how to read links? Animals do it because they have empathy and higher order reasoning, just like humans. They are the same thus animals have morality. If you are going to imply that animals do it only because its instinctual, then so are humans. Don't try to pull hypocrisy or I'll call you on it.



More nonsense. I don't know where you pick this gibberish up, but apparently you really don't know anything about psychology. Yes, SOME desensitization occurs but the reason for that is that we have no association with these people on the other side of the planet. When an association is created, THEN we'll care. You feel for these people because you have an association with them. I'm not detached or desensitized, I'm merely analytical and I chose to not care.



Being fueled by anger and rage IS mentally ill...

Really dude, have you actually studied any psychology formally or are you just, you know... talking for fun? I hate to abuse you if you are just venting your thoughts



You have obviously been selective reading some outlandish books with some strange idea's. Keep reading them and stay in your limited view of how humans function.

You said it all when you said that "you don't feel a thing when you see starving and dying children". You can't choose not to feel as you say you do. "That is called denial"

I'm not interested in what you have to say, because you don't have anything that is worth listening to.
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Edited: December 18, 2012 @ 14:31
Tar On April 28, 2014




San Antonio, Texas
#70New Post! Dec 18, 2012 @ 14:28:09
@Raymondone888 Said

I'm not interested in what you have to say, because you don't have anything that is worth listening to.



Typical close minded ignorance
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Raymondone888 On January 26, 2013
Rise above the cloud





London, United Kingdom
#71New Post! Dec 18, 2012 @ 14:32:08
@Tar Said

Typical close minded ignorance


Works both ways
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townie_guy On May 07, 2013

Deleted



, United Kingdom
#72New Post! Dec 18, 2012 @ 14:47:22
@Raymondone888 Said


You said it all when you said that "you don't feel a thing when you see starving and dying children". You can't choose not to feel as you say you do. "That is called denial"



A beings it affects your life so badly. Have you done anything about it. If not, then you are no different to the rest of us. Me personally I choose not to carry the weight of the world on my shoulders. I only get involved in things that I can personally can change.

Feeling bad about something you you either cant change or arnt prepared to change does not achieve anything.

Or are you just trying to send us on a guilt trip.
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Raymondone888 On January 26, 2013
Rise above the cloud





London, United Kingdom
#73New Post! Dec 18, 2012 @ 16:08:59
@townie_guy Said

A beings it affects your life so badly. Have you done anything about it. If not, then you are no different to the rest of us. Me personally I choose not to carry the weight of the world on my shoulders. I only get involved in things that I can personally can change.

Feeling bad about something you you either cant change or arnt prepared to change does not achieve anything.

Or are you just trying to send us on a guilt trip.


You are putting words into my mouth that I have not uttered.

Because I can feel empathy, it doesn't mean that it effects my life in a negative way. Empathy is a good thing because it is what connects us emotionally and spiritually.

Some people are afraid to feel emotion which tends to disconnect them from themselves as well as others. I have found some psychologists to be extremely disconnected.

Some people that quote from psychology books remind me of Christian fundamentalists who quote the bible as being absolute truth.
The real truth comes when the mind connects to emotion along with your own personal experiences. When you search your soul, it becomes easier to see the soul of others, and I don't mean soul in the bible sense, but rather the centre of your being.

If you think that I am trying to send you on a guilt trip, then you are experiencing paranoia.

People with a high EQ will understand what I am talking about. People with low EQ will not comprehend.
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Edited: December 18, 2012 @ 16:12
townie_guy On May 07, 2013

Deleted



, United Kingdom
#74New Post! Dec 18, 2012 @ 16:13:51
@Raymondone888 Said



Some people are afraid to feel emotion which tends to disconnect them from themselves as well as others. I have found some psychologists to be extremely disconnected.


Well with some jobs you have to disjoin yourself. If you see a lot of bad stuff, feeling empathy will affect you to the point you cant carry on.

Same as some Doctors and Nurses. Sure they will still feel bad but they cant get involved on a personal level, as it will affect there job.

Imagine having to declare people as dead in a hospital. How many dead people do you think they see over a day.

I dont know your background, but I know from experience that in some jobs you have to distance yourself and "toughen up". Otherwise you will be that unfocussed on your job, you will cause other people to die.

Its part of being professional.
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Raymondone888 On January 26, 2013
Rise above the cloud





London, United Kingdom
#75New Post! Dec 18, 2012 @ 17:00:51
@townie_guy Said

Well with some jobs you have to disjoin yourself. If you see a lot of bad stuff, feeling empathy will affect you to the point you cant carry on.

Same as some Doctors and Nurses. Sure they will still feel bad but they cant get involved on a personal level, as it will affect there job.

Imagine having to declare people as dead in a hospital. How many dead people do you think they see over a day.

I dont know your background, but I know from experience that in some jobs you have to distance yourself and "toughen up". Otherwise you will be that unfocussed on your job, you will cause other people to die.

Its part of being professional.


You are partly correct, but I would like to add something that is relevant. My wife is a well respected therapist in one of London's premier private mental health hospitals. She works with clients that suffer from depression and suicidal attempts, Anorexia, Bulimia, Bi-polar disorder, Self harmer's, Alcoholics and drug addicts, Gamblers, and listen's to horrendous stories on a daily basis.

You are correct that it is important not to carry their pain and take it home with you. That is when a therapist reaches burnout.
However, it is important to feel it, because the therapists that don't tend to be bad therapists (and they are many) because they tend to say inappropriate things. The therapist has to learn to leave the pain in their workplace.

Many soldiers who have been through a traumatic experience tend to not want to feel. If a therapist asks a question that brings up a painful memory, they nearly always cough. The cough tends to suppress the feelings.
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