Brexit

@shadowen Said

Not necessarily. Half truths can often be accepted as "facts" whilst "facts" themselves can conceal as much as they reveal. Making the effort to find "facts" from different sources that you yourself source is but one part of the process in the formulation of your own ideas. Bear in mind too that in any given situation there is often more than one "truth".

@nooneinparticular Said

You're free to believe whatever you wish, but to me, linking 'facts' and 'truths' like that is a dangerous road to travel.

I think there is a fundamental difference between 'facts' and 'truths'. Facts are data points. Data points are only useful when compared with other data points. 'Facts' do not become 'truths', half or otherwise. 'Truths' only arise when people attempt to understand and interpret 'facts' among a greater narrative then what the original 'fact' encompasses.

Without this dividing line, I feel that anyone runs a much greater risk of confusing 'facts' for 'truths', and hence how people end up in weird and awkward trains of thought where they have to think about things like 'half truths' and 'multiple truths'.

@dookie Said

I have to admit to feeling anger at what has come to be over Brexit. Personally I am immune to the financial hit. We own our own house and our pensions are more than enough, allowing us to be the Bank of Mum & Dad to our daughter and family.

Why do I care I ask myself. Why indeed. But I do.

As far as I can determine many voting Leave wanted to kick the Establishment in the teeth, the status quo, feeling "left behind". I have never understood what this had to do with anything the EU had done......except for what was seen as the "immigrant problem".

But looking up the facts, our EU immigrants pay their way, contributing a NET amount to the Exchequer. Therefore lack of adequate housing and the overstretched NHS and Social Care system can be attributed to the acts and decisions of successive UK Governments, acts and decisions in NO WAY determined by any EU directives.

All that is left is prejudice, the dislike of a foreign face or accent. The great unmentionable, hidden and even unacknowledged beneath cries of "sovereignty".

And of course the Establishment has now become a Chumocracy far more outrageous than anything before.

And so the UK heads towards an act of self harm unprecedented in our history. At the helm a chancer and an opportunist, a liar, elected under the slogans of "Get Brexit Done" and "Over Ready Deal". Brexit is NOT done and given the current state of affairs will never be "done" - disputes between the EU and the UK will be continuous. As far as the Oven Ready Deal, Boris Johnson has already trashed it himself.

The 50,000 additional pen pushers are with us (a number admitted in parliament by Michael Gove), the 66 acre Lorry Park has been tarmacked, and the latest Polls tell us that just 38% still support Brexit.

Tragic. Truly tragic. So many opportunities for our young people ( who voted overwelmingly to Remain ) will be closed to them. Many who voted Leave will soon be kicking up daisies, perhaps cremated with their Union Jacks draped around them.

Sickened.

@mrmhead Said

The "Shake the status quo" / "Kick Establishment in the Teeth" is what helped bring about our Great Mistake. But luckily it only lasted 4 years. Yes, there will be echoes and repercussions for a number of years, but luckily we didn't completely cut off our nose to spite our face ... more like just a good punch.

@dookie Said

You point to one of the reasons why Referendums, according to the UK Constitution, are "advisory only". Otherwise they become rogue beasts. Otherwise a momentary "take" on public opinion can end up dictating the future for generations..........oooops!

Alas, a Referendum WAS called, was described as the "decision of a lifetime" and our then Tory Leaders pledged to abide by the result.....assuming an easy win for Remain they never even did what is written into so many Referendums in other constitutions i.e. ruling that any fundamental change must have a substantial majority before the result initiates change.

But all that is history. The unexpected Leave win led to Dave "I shall remain to see it through whatever the result" Cameron resigning, and then all the main Leave politicians ran a mile when a new PM was required! Strange!

The pathetic folly and stupidity of our current "leaders" becomes more obvious by the day. Michael Gove, who has rubbished "experts" for years when they have advocated EU membership now quotes them copiously to justify Covid policy, while another, Steve Baker, who has rubbished economic forecasts an equal number of years that have predicted Brexit catastrophe, now uses them to object to Covid policy! At sixes and sevens they stumble on.

@Jennifer1984 Said

Your comment regarding the British Constitution is flawed. Britain doesn't have a Constitution.

What we have is a series of Statutes which are mostly based on custom, tradition and precedent. This is a more flexible way of enacting laws and moving with the times, rather than holding rigidly steadfast to ideas and concepts that over time become anachronistic. The second amendment of the US Constitution was no doubt added because, as I understand it, the Founding Fathers believed that if anybody attempted to create a despotism in the newly created nation, an armed people's militia would be able to rise up in the name of the Constitution and restore democracy.

They also lived in a time of muzzle loaded muskets that could possibly manage three rounds a minute in the hands of a very skilled shooter. They sure as heck wouldn't have forseen the high velocity, rapid fire automatic weapons that are being toted by the Proud Boys in defence of the sort of despot the 2nd amendment was meant to protect the country AGAINST..!!

So, what does that mean to Britain..? Well, our series of statutes worked very well as long as politicians were basically honest, honourable men, who believed in our system of government and who would "Play Up And Play The Game".

What we have now is a scoundrel in Downing Street who is not only prepared to break the rules, he is also determined to tear the rules up as soon as he has exploited them in such a way as to give him carte blanche to change the rule book in his favour.

This was how Brexit worked. A compliant and complacent public who trusted the system. How many times have you heard it said "I thought we were too sensible to do anything like this"....... "We're British, we don't behave like some banana republic. It can't happen here"......

But it can. And it is. And it's happening in plain view for all to see. And we still cling to the belief that it's all going to work out right in the end. That Boris is really a good egg and, well, alright, so he's got a few kids 'cos he puts it about, and he's a bit thick and crap at the job, but aren't they all..? He's one of us and he'll do right by the country in the end.

No he isn't, and no he won't.

He wants to remove the power of the Supreme Court to rule on the actions of Government when they break the law*. He also wants to prevent the courts from adjudicating on offences by Ministers against current statutes.

We're in a lot more trouble than just Brexit.





*In 2019 he came within a whisker of being in contempt of court over proroguing Parliament.... when he even lied to the Queen...!! He had to back down on that one or most certainly go to Prison. He didn't like being constrained by the Court and now he wants to take away their power to block him in future.

He is setting about removing the checks and balances that prevent him instituting a dictatorship.