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What conclusions have YOU come to?

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dookie On 31 minutes ago
Foolish Bombu





, United Kingdom
#1New Post! Sep 16, 2020 @ 09:49:45
"The rage for wanting to conclude is one of the most deadly and most fruitless manias to befall humanity. Each religion and each philosophy has pretended to have God to itself, to measure the infinite, and to know the recipe for happiness. What arrogance and what nonsense! I see, to the contrary, that the greatest geniuses and the greatest works have never concluded."

(Flaubert, Gustave - unknown source)
mrmhead On 23 minutes ago




NE, Ohio
#2New Post! Sep 16, 2020 @ 12:05:53
@dookie Said

"The rage for wanting to conclude is one of the most deadly and most fruitless manias to befall humanity. Each religion and each philosophy has pretended to have God to itself, to measure the infinite, and to know the recipe for happiness. What arrogance and what nonsense! I see, to the contrary, that the greatest geniuses and the greatest works have never concluded."

(Flaubert, Gustave - unknown source)


That was a major reason why I became an agnostic.
I was being instructed "This is right. This is true. Those other religions don't have it right. That religion is wrong"
And I simply asked myself - What makes Us the authorities over the others?

Ironic that while I was being "prepared" for confirmation as a Protestant, I became agnostic.

So I was not at all ashamed or afraid to continue going through the motions to appease my parents/family. - I guess it became a Conformation rather than a confirmation ceremony

---
My other major sticking point was the endless claim of an All Loving God...
... who will send people to hell if they don't accept Jesus - even those who had not even had a chance to learn about him - i.e. the Missionaries objective to "Save Them"
dookie On 31 minutes ago
Foolish Bombu





, United Kingdom
#3New Post! Sep 16, 2020 @ 12:36:01
@mrmhead Said

That was major reason why I became an agnostic.....



As I understand it, agnosticism is to think that nothing can ever be known about such fundamental things as the existence or nature of God........even perhaps, of the ultimate nature of Reality.

This, for me, would be a conclusion.

This said in a very friendly way. I generally sympathise with your position.

Maybe my own trust/faith in Reality as infinite compassion, infinite wisdom, infinite potential can also be deemed a "conclusion". But as I see it such faith gives me the confidence to actually live without conclusions. Free then to open to others, of diverse convictions.
mrmhead On 23 minutes ago




NE, Ohio
#4New Post! Sep 16, 2020 @ 13:13:33
@dookie Said

As I understand it, agnosticism is to think that nothing can ever be known about such fundamental things as the existence or nature of God........even perhaps, of the ultimate nature of Reality.

This, for me, would be a conclusion.

This said in a very friendly way. I generally sympathise with your position.

Maybe my own trust/faith in Reality as infinite compassion, infinite wisdom, infinite potential can also be deemed a "conclusion". But as I see it such faith gives me the confidence to actually live without conclusions. Free then to open to others, of diverse convictions.


As I've always joked - If I find myself standing before God at the pearly gates, my comment would be "Holy s***! You are real!!"

- Not too different from a recent joke posted here about the atheist praying to God for help as he's being eaten by the Loch Ness monster.


That doesn't mean I dismiss the teachings and morals of Christianity. I find many of them rather compatible with Humanity and civilization.

Which is also why I was OK with my son going to PSR (Saturday morning Catholic religion classes) When he started questioning things, we had honest conversations, and he never made first communion.
But he was baptized (another act of conformation on my part) so at least he wouldn't burn in hell if he died before being able to learn and make decisions.
dookie On 31 minutes ago
Foolish Bombu





, United Kingdom
#5New Post! Sep 16, 2020 @ 15:36:42
@mrmhead Said

As I've always joked - If I find myself standing before God at the pearly gates, my comment would be "Holy s***! You are real!!"

- Not too different from a recent joke posted here about the atheist praying to God for help as he's being eaten by the Loch Ness monster.


That doesn't mean I dismiss the teachings and morals of Christianity. I find many of them rather compatible with Humanity and civilization.

Which is also why I was OK with my son going to PSR (Saturday morning Catholic religion classes) When he started questioning things, we had honest conversations, and he never made first communion.
But he was baptized (another act of conformation on my part) so at least he wouldn't burn in hell if he died before being able to learn and make decisions.



Current theological jargon is that "God" is the ground of being rather than a being. Difficult to imagine standing before that in which we live and move and have our being! We do stand before other persons, and we don't have to imagine that.

When I still retained some sort of "salvific" interest in the Christian Faith I was becoming more interested and informing myself of Universalism, the teaching that all will eventually be "saved". It's a growing belief among many Christians and there are even reputable books by those who have investigated the documents of the early church and the early Church Fathers that it was in fact the teaching of the nascent Church during the first few centuries. Few on any forum were interested. Ardent Christians of a particular stripe prefer judgement, condemnation, the eternal separation of "sheep" and "goats", presuming themselves to be a sheep of course. Certainly preferred it to grace and mercy.

I drifted "east" and have no regrets.
gakINGKONG 10 minutes ago




, Florida
#6New Post! Sep 16, 2020 @ 16:06:26
Resurrection then judgment of the quick and the dead --- is coming.
dookie On 31 minutes ago
Foolish Bombu





, United Kingdom
#7New Post! Sep 16, 2020 @ 16:23:48
@gakINGKONG Said

Resurrection then judgment of the quick and the dead --- is coming.



Hi again, you obviously prefer conclusions and definitive pronouncements.
mrmhead On 23 minutes ago




NE, Ohio
#8New Post! Sep 16, 2020 @ 16:39:15
@gakINGKONG Said

Resurrection then judgment of the quick and the dead --- is coming.


Which one?




Maybe Twilight can give us some enlightenment.
He's always good for a judgment of movies.
darkman666 On about 6 hours ago




Saint Louis, Missouri
#9New Post! Sep 16, 2020 @ 16:56:33
@mrmhead Said

Which one?




Maybe Twilight can give us some enlightenment.
He's always good for a judgment of movies.


most people would choice the original movie theater poster with sharon stone over other one, i never seen before.

the movie itself was pretty good. it probably one of the most successfully western women of all time. beside this movie and " silverdo " was the first western movies of comeback. a decade of huge drop of western movies that were made. " the quick and the dead " , i give 3 1/2 stars out of 4 stars.
darkman666 On about 6 hours ago




Saint Louis, Missouri
#10New Post! Sep 16, 2020 @ 17:24:19
i did just check out sam elliot's 1987's tv movie, the quick and the dead. i don't really remember it to rate it. but, sam elliot does it, it usually 3 1/2 stars movies. but both movies are different plot to it. this movie is another 3 remakes of " shane ".

shane
the quick and the dead
the unforgiven
open range
chaski On 25 minutes ago
Stalker





Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#11New Post! Sep 16, 2020 @ 20:16:52
Truth is a Pathless Land
dookie On 31 minutes ago
Foolish Bombu





, United Kingdom
#12New Post! Sep 16, 2020 @ 20:43:54



For Chuang Tzu, as for the Gospel, to lose one’s life is to save it, and to seek to save it for one’s own sake is to lose it........In any event, the “way” of Chuang Tzu is mysterious because it is so simple that it can get along without being a way at all. Least of all is it a “way out.” Chuang Tzu would have agreed with St. John of the Cross, that you enter upon this kind of way when you leave all ways and, in some sense, get lost.

(Thomas Merton, "A Note To The Reader" from his translation of Chuang Tzu)
Erimitus On about 1 hour ago




The mind of God, Antarctica
#13New Post! Sep 16, 2020 @ 20:48:15
Conclusions are tentative.
chaski On 25 minutes ago
Stalker





Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#14New Post! Sep 16, 2020 @ 20:54:49
@dookie Said

For Chuang Tzu, as for the Gospel, to lose one’s life is to save it, and to seek to save it for one’s own sake is to lose it........In any event, the “way” of Chuang Tzu is mysterious because it is so simple that it can get along without being a way at all. Least of all is it a “way out.” Chuang Tzu would have agreed with St. John of the Cross, that you enter upon this kind of way when you leave all ways and, in some sense, get lost.

(Thomas Merton, "A Note To The Reader" from his translation of Chuang Tzu)


Overall not bad, though I confess to not being much of a fan of Merton, perhaps it is the Catholicism influence.

I'm not of the Eastern Orthodox religions, but I would defer to the Philokalia over anything written by Merton, or any western christian.

If I were a western church "catholic" or other "christian", I'd probably just stick with the Didache.

In any case, from what I can tell if truth is not a pathless land, being pathless (or even completely lost) is a far better option than what is offered by the Abrahamic cults.

If one needs to have a creed the Noble Eightfold Path, is likely a good place to both start and stop.

Though I do confess to being somewhat intrigued by Shinto... but just somewhat.
dookie On 31 minutes ago
Foolish Bombu





, United Kingdom
#15New Post! Sep 16, 2020 @ 20:58:33
@Erimitus Said

Conclusions are tentative.



The Buddhist take can be found in The Parable of the Raft, from the Theravada "Majjhima Nikaya"....."I shall show you how the Dhamma is similar to a raft, being for the purpose of crossing over, not for the purpose of grasping” (The Buddha)

Dhamma (Pali, Sanskrit = Dharma) can be simply the Buddha's teachings, or Truth, the Way.
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