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A Perfect World Looks Like..?

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Jennifer1984 On about 3 hours ago
Returner and proud





Penzance, United Kingdom
#76New Post! Jul 29, 2020 @ 13:53:20
@nooneinparticular Said

In an attempt to not JUST derail this thread, let's consider utopias for a while as well. Utopias are nice to consider, but someone's heaven is someone else's hell. Personally speaking, when considering the world, I tend to think more about future tech and such rather than social constructs. Prosthesis, discovery, advances in science, that sort of thing. All though I will admit that even those daydreams don't really fit the bill for a 'utopia', and they come with their own set of problems, surely. For me though, anything beyond even that is so vague for me that it's not even worth considering.


I've never been one to believe in Utopias at all.

For a start, if I were still practicing my faith I would still be wracked with the guilt of original sin, I wouldn't be married, would very likely have never considered IVF and therefore be hating myself because my maternal instincts could never be fulfilled. I would be on my knees praying to a God that probably isn't there, and if he is, then going by his biblical record he is an utter bastard.

As I'm no longer practicing though, any inclination towards belief in Utopia is thwarted by the knowledge that I'm human and am therefore fallible in the same way that all of us are. This has meant that in the process of becoming the dominant species, we have set ourselves on a collision course with the destruction of our habitat (eg: planet Earth) which is not good for our long term survival prospects.

Bearing these things in mind, if religion is specifically designed to create a servile and submissive populace to a deity that isn't fit to be a parent on the one hand, and on the other, human nature has contrived to make us..... the apex species on the planet into some sort of demented, child king, hell bent on its own destruction.

Neither of these options is remotely like any sort of "Utopia" that I'd imagine.
nooneinparticular On about 2 hours ago




, Hawaii
#77New Post! Jul 29, 2020 @ 14:37:10
@Jennifer1984 Said

I've never been one to believe in Utopias at all.

For a start, if I were still practicing my faith I would still be wracked with the guilt of original sin, I wouldn't be married, would very likely have never considered IVF and therefore be hating myself because my maternal instincts could never be fulfilled. I would be on my knees praying to a God that probably isn't there, and if he is, then going by his biblical record he is an utter bastard.

As I'm no longer practicing though, any inclination towards belief in Utopia is thwarted by the knowledge that I'm human and am therefore fallible in the same way that all of us are. This has meant that in the process of becoming the dominant species, we have set ourselves on a collision course with the destruction of our habitat (eg: planet Earth) which is not good for our long term survival prospects.

Bearing these things in mind, if religion is specifically designed to create a servile and submissive populace to a deity that isn't fit to be a parent on the one hand, and on the other, human nature has contrived to make us..... the apex species on the planet into some sort of demented, child king, hell bent on its own destruction.

Neither of these options is remotely like any sort of "Utopia" that I'd imagine.


Honestly same. About not believing in utopias, not the stuff about IVF...which would just be weird and probably kill me. I kinda think that's why my answers are so vague and not really 'out there' compared to some of the other people here.
bob_the_fisherman On August 01, 2020
Anatidaephobic





, Angola
#78New Post! Jul 31, 2020 @ 06:33:18
@nooneinparticular Said

You know what this is reminiscent of?

I must say I find it refreshingly hilarious that you use the exact same rationale as the 'antifa' you hate so very much in order to support your own ideals.



As a rule I do not bother with your commentary any more, but will yet again point out why.

Pantyfa claim their opponents are morally evil and use threats, intimidation and, at times, actual violence to silence them.

I claim my opponents are generally fact free and guided by their feefees about which neither I nor facts give a damn.

I do not use violence against them.
I do not seek to silence them.
I do not call them evil (although I do claim that some of their acts are evil, and have, in the previous post, suggested that some of those who rise to the top of these organisations are, if not evil, then certainly lacking in the moral rectitude one would wish in a leader).

There is no similarity between these stances.

REEEEEEEEEEEing that all my opponents are morally evil because orangemanbad and so forth is the childish tanty laden ramblings of the unhinged and ignorant. Pointing out that bad people manipulate ignorant people into engaging in bad acts is a little more nuanced, yet here you are pointlessly claiming we are the same - either because you enjoy pointless arguments, do not understand nuance or some other reason I don't care enough about to determine.

I will let you have the final word and move on, as I am already bored by this same, tired old tactic.

If you make a genuine comment I will respond at some future point when time permits (although that could be some time away, as the real world is busy right now for some odd reason or other).
DiscordTiger On about 13 hours ago
The Queen of Random

Administrator




Emerald City, United States (g
#79New Post! Jul 31, 2020 @ 18:03:46
@bob_the_fisherman Said

I think you read my comment in a way it was not written. I am absolutely not defending indefensible things - like Nazism or neo Nazism or fascism or racism. I oppose all of those things.

My point was that Nazis wanted things that are extremely similar to what Social Justice Warriors want today - even down to the language, actions etc. The only difference is who is targeted.

I also agree with you that the media only cares about deaths that serve their political narrative, as does groups like BLM. Very few people have heard of Tony Timpa, for example. And I also agree that America has a problem with race, but it is not all one way traffic. Yes people are free to parrot Nazi ideas about systemic racism if they want, but it does not make it any more true than it was then.

Are all black people oppressed? No.
Are all white people privileged? No.
Are all white people oppressing minorities? No.
is it only white people oppressing minorities? No.
Is it only minorities that are oppressed? No.
Is race the only factor contributing to the problems in the US and the west more broadly? No.
Do some in the media lie about Trump supporters being racist? Yes.
Is race used to divide people? Yes.

Complex problems require complex answers and solutions. Social justice is not about complexity. And while I only know the US situation from what I see and hear, I see the same cancer being used here. People use race to divide and call those who disagree divisive.

As long as this continues to be true the ability of people to talk will lessen and the chance of violence will increase.



My city protested and got the DOJ involved when police murdered a while homeless dude that annoyed everyone.

Wrong is wrong.
bob_the_fisherman On August 01, 2020
Anatidaephobic





, Angola
#80New Post! Jul 31, 2020 @ 22:24:53
@DiscordTiger Said

My city protested and got the DOJ involved when police murdered a while homeless dude that annoyed everyone.

Wrong is wrong.



And riots broke out after a violent criminal who held a gun to a pregnant woman's belly was killed by a cop in the same way the white guy Tony Timpa was killed - yet no one even batted an eye over his death.




If you want to succeed in the USA what is most important: (a) Being white, or, (b) valuing education, family, fatherhood and marriage? The DNC want you to believe it is (a) when the truth is (b).
DiscordTiger On about 13 hours ago
The Queen of Random

Administrator




Emerald City, United States (g
#81New Post! Jul 31, 2020 @ 23:53:19
@bob_the_fisherman Said

And riots broke out after a violent criminal who held a gun to a pregnant woman's belly was killed by a cop in the same way the white guy Tony Timpa was killed - yet no one even batted an eye over his death.




If you want to succeed in the USA what is most important: (a) Being white, or, (b) valuing education, family, fatherhood and marriage? The DNC want you to believe it is (a) when the truth is (b).


Riots broke out because a white supremacist saw a protest and took the opportunity to break windows and start s***. When cops pulled a man out of his car, put him in a cop car, pulled him out again. Then killed him in the street. Not even with a overdose of drugs like a lethal injection - but the training cop did it with his knee while his new trainees watched.

Oh and that guy, did his time, but tried to buy something with a bad twenty — so he left. He didn’t steal anything.

Oh. And the white supremacist is on tape, starting s***. At auto zone and protesters begging him to stop And possibly the fires in precinct too.

The DNC does not believe that. That is what thee majority of the right wing leading outlets are spewing because it fits their narrative.

You’re not going to convict me otherwise. I live here.

It’s a complicated issue. Democrats are not all bad the same way republicans are all bad. Anyone making that extreme argument is selling bulls***.
Jennifer1984 On about 3 hours ago
Returner and proud





Penzance, United Kingdom
#82New Post! Aug 01, 2020 @ 06:26:26
It's a fine line between news and propaganda. And some sections of the US press have crossed that line. Worse than that, they've crossed it knowingly and willingly.

We have the same problem here. Not to the same extreme as in US, but we're getting there.

Most of us are capable of telling the difference and rejecting the lies and untruths even if there is nothing we can do about them. We have two choices. We can keep silent and allow it to flourish or we can speak out.

The second option can be dangerous because by speaking out we raise our heads above the parapet and can become targets for people like the white supremacists - who make themselves the volunteer foot soldiers of the propaganda peddlars - and while aggression towards us is limited (at this time) to abuse and attack online, we know that where individuals have been identified, real life assaults have taken place.

The stakes in this are high. Do we meekly accept the likes of Bob to hate and abuse and spread lies about groups of people.... vilify their entire race or religion based on the activities of a few..? That is the easy path to a quiet life, but it allows them to take over our society and make it a mirror image of themselves and their horrible doctrine.

Or do we speak out at risk to ourselves? Which is hard and fraught with ever increasing risk of personal danger...?

I'm a noisy, irritating cow who won't shut the f*** up. But I've been lucky. So far. Trouble could come to my front door one day. That's possible. When it comes it will probably be carrying a Murdoch newspaper in one hand and a weapon of some kind in the other. It will be white and it will believe in the supremacy of the white man. It will call me a traitor to the white race, and my kind a perversion.... an aberration... to be eradicated.

When these people can't achieve their aims through propaganda and lies, then they'll step up their campaigns of hate and violence.

We're not at that point in UK yet, but you're getting perilously close to it over there. And what happens in US usually doesn't take too long to spread here.

What have we - the moderate, peaceful, tolerant majority - got to fight back with..? All we have is our decency, our truth and our determination not to succumb. Is that enough to win in the end and defeat hate..? I don't know. I hope it is. I'm going to give it a try because I can't and won't be like the Bob's of this world.

Things may get worse before they get better. In UK, extremism is having its time. It's in the ascendancy at the moment. It's had a free run up to now, which is how it's gained its ground. We were blind to it. We didn't pay enough attention to what was happening right under our noses. We tolerated the extremists as immature idiots who just needed to grow up. We thought their doctrine would wither and die on the vine.

But they had a plan. A strategy. And we underestimated it. they found wealthy backers to finance them and like-minded media moguls to give them the oxygen of publicity. That is how they grew.

But little by little, people's eyes are opening to what is going on. The inadequacies of our national leadership, and the full impact of the damage we have inflicted on ourselves by leaving the EU are starting to dawn on basically good people who were easily lied to and believed the beguiling images they were fed because it all sounded so good.... so easy.... such a bright future at no cost or risk to anything.

Slowly, but surely, the people are having their eyes opened. And they're not liking what they see.

When the tide of history finally turns against the extremists they will see their advantage slipping and when that happens, that's when they will become violently dangerous. They'll mobilise their propaganda machine again and their paymasters will fund even more untruths. More campaigns of lies. More distortion of democracy and criminal behaviour than before. They won't easily give up what they've won.

We - the tolerant, peaceful, moderate democratic majority - must win. Because if we don't, there really will be nowhere to go. Nowhere to hide. And no future for our children.

You see.... that's why people like me are so determined that extremism mustn't flourish. The bottom line is that it's not about me. All I want is a future for my little girl. Like millions of others who could stand all sorts of tribulation for themselves, they want something better for their kids. And they're prepared to suffer for it. We want to stop them in their tracks.

The extremists and their cohorts want to prevent that happening. We can't - we mustn't - let them.

That's the magnitude of where we are today.
dookie 6 minutes ago
Foolish Bombu





, United Kingdom
#83New Post! Aug 01, 2020 @ 09:07:10
@Jennifer1984 Said



That's the magnitude of where we are today.



I think the world has often been "here" before. Wherever "here" is. Feeling the "magnitude" of our own particular age and the choices we face.

I don't like "soundbites" though perhaps I fall for them and even use them myself. I don't really like "we of the moral majority" kind of talk. I try not to identify with the "good" or the "true" or the "right" side of anything.

I prefer zeroing in on individuals. Not waffling on about those "who died to make us free", but more in reading individual diaries of the guys in the trenches or on the beaches, hearing their voice, those who actually died or fought for who knows what.

I'd just say that many appear unaware of just how fragile our society is. Just how soon it can all go up in smoke. Having said what I've said, I do think we live in particularly dangerous times.

I try to love my partner and immediate family. Along with others, I seek to ground my grandchildren in the capacity to love and to have empathy for others. On the bright side, I might be naive but I do see signs of hope in the younger generation who might just succeed in many things in which my own generation has failed. But who knows?
nooneinparticular On about 2 hours ago




, Hawaii
#84New Post! Aug 05, 2020 @ 01:35:03
@bob_the_fisherman Said

As a rule I do not bother with your commentary any more, but will yet again point out why.

Pantyfa claim their opponents are morally evil and use threats, intimidation and, at times, actual violence to silence them.

I claim my opponents are generally fact free and guided by their feefees about which neither I nor facts give a damn.

I do not use violence against them.
I do not seek to silence them.
I do not call them evil (although I do claim that some of their acts are evil, and have, in the previous post, suggested that some of those who rise to the top of these organisations are, if not evil, then certainly lacking in the moral rectitude one would wish in a leader).

There is no similarity between these stances.

REEEEEEEEEEEing that all my opponents are morally evil because orangemanbad and so forth is the childish tanty laden ramblings of the unhinged and ignorant. Pointing out that bad people manipulate ignorant people into engaging in bad acts is a little more nuanced, yet here you are pointlessly claiming we are the same - either because you enjoy pointless arguments, do not understand nuance or some other reason I don't care enough about to determine.

I will let you have the final word and move on, as I am already bored by this same, tired old tactic.

If you make a genuine comment I will respond at some future point when time permits (although that could be some time away, as the real world is busy right now for some odd reason or other).


We've gone over this numerous times and every single time you seem to ignore the one word that completely changes the conversation. "Rationale". Rationale is not methods, those are two completely different ideas.

Strip away all the pomp about who is 'morally right' and what do we end up with? Two sides that each view the other with contempt, who sees the other as 'zealots relying on their feefees', who see talking to each other as pointless exercises, and yet these two sides are not using the same rationale?
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