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Ineluctable modalities and all that jazz!

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dookie On 7 minutes ago
Foolish Bombu





, United Kingdom
#1New Post! Jul 29, 2020 @ 09:28:11
Below is a sentence from James Joyces "Ulysses":-


"Ineluctable modality of the visible: at least that if no more, thought through my eyes"

Here are a few words I found at random on the net concerning the above sentence:-

"Stephen opens the chapter playing with the relationship of visual perception and thought, and their ability to deliver truth. Most people experience the world most immediately through sight. The other senses play a role, naturally, but if I asked you to describe the room you’re sitting in, you’d probably given me a visual description before you described that funky smell coming from the corner. Stephen uses this inescapable (ineluctable) mode of experiencing reality to begin exploring the environs of Sandymount Strand. Two issues, though: how does sight actually work and how reliable is it when describing reality? These must have been nagging questions indeed for someone like Stephen (and Joyce) who suffered from weak eyes most of his life."

I hit on this simply because of an exchange of posts with Chaski. I looked up a Joseph Campbell book on "The Art of James Joyce" and there were some biographical details of Mr Campbell, when he went to Paris in 1927 to study medieval philology. The literary world was then agog with "Ulysses" and Joseph Campbell, reading the above passage, actually changed the course of his life. What price "medieval philology" when there is a whole world just in front of your eyes, there, now?

Anyway, I'm just relaxing in a coffee shop at the moment. Perhaps just having "a bit of a larf".

Anyone else want to waffle?
dookie On 7 minutes ago
Foolish Bombu





, United Kingdom
#2New Post! Jul 29, 2020 @ 11:16:33
Joseph Campbell seemed to argue against a total embrace of the phenomenal.

"The notion of separateness is simply a function of the way our senses experience us here in time and space. We’re separate in this room because of space. We’re separate from the group that were here last night because of time. These are the separating factors....the individuating factors. And these are secondary. The notion of you and the other is a secondary one, and every now and then, this other realization comes up. . . . compassion releases you from the ego orientation"

What is this "other realization"?


Thomas Merton says, related to this:-

"Modern consciousness then tends to create this solipsistic bubble of awareness — an ego-self imprisoned in its own consciousness, isolated and out of touch with other such selves in so far as they are all “things” rather than persons"
darkman666 On about 2 hours ago




Saint Louis, Missouri
#3New Post! Jul 30, 2020 @ 15:31:25
naturally, but if I asked you to describe the room you’re sitting in, you’d probably given me a visual description before you described that funky smell coming from the corner.

you need take your trash out.
dookie On 7 minutes ago
Foolish Bombu





, United Kingdom
#4New Post! Jul 30, 2020 @ 16:05:03
@darkman666 Said

naturally, but if I asked you to describe the room you’re sitting in, you’d probably given me a visual description before you described that funky smell coming from the corner.

you need take your trash out.



The ineluctable modality of the olfactory!

dookie On 7 minutes ago
Foolish Bombu





, United Kingdom
#5New Post! Jul 30, 2020 @ 20:15:50
The words "ability to deliver truth" appear in the OP. The character in James Joyces novel is reflecting upon how our thoughts concerning the visual, phenomenal reality can "deliver truth"?

Can they?

What is "truth"?

Does it drop from the sky, ready made? Is it "revealed" to us by an outside agency, power, God?

Do we discover "truth" or do we create it? Can it be put into words? Is it some sort of "finality"? Or is truth on-going, constantly evolving?

Any opinions appreciated.
darkman666 On about 2 hours ago




Saint Louis, Missouri
#6New Post! Jul 30, 2020 @ 20:21:16
@dookie Said

The words "ability to deliver truth" appear in the OP. The character in James Joyces novel is reflecting upon how our thoughts concerning the visual, phenomenal reality can "deliver truth"?

Can they?

What is "truth"?

Does it drop from the sky, ready made? Is it "revealed" to us by an outside agency, power, God?

Do we discover "truth" or do we create it? Can it be put into words? Is it some sort of "finality"? Or is truth on-going, constantly evolving?

Any opinions appreciated.



sometimes. deliver the truth, the good thing. the term comes to mind :

bite more than chew

truth can more than the cure and the cause.
dookie On 7 minutes ago
Foolish Bombu





, United Kingdom
#7New Post! Jul 30, 2020 @ 20:52:12
@darkman666 Said

sometimes. deliver the truth, the good thing. the term comes to mind :

bite more than chew



If I understand you correctly, you are in effect saying that we should acknowledge it when we do not know. That it is dangerous to insist that we know when we do not. Therefore "truth" for us, existentially, can be humility.


@darkman666 Said


truth can more than the cure and the cause.



Sorry, I do not understand you.
darkman666 On about 2 hours ago




Saint Louis, Missouri
#8New Post! Jul 30, 2020 @ 21:08:19
@dookie Said

If I understand you correctly, you are in effect saying that we should acknowledge it when we do not know. That it is dangerous to insist that we know when we do not. Therefore "truth" for us, existentially, can be humility.





Sorry, I do not understand you.



i mean too much of the truth, can more harmful than lie. sometimes, it is better to keep the truth to yourself. then someone know the truth that can hurt them in the long run.
dookie On 7 minutes ago
Foolish Bombu





, United Kingdom
#9New Post! Jul 31, 2020 @ 07:50:09
@darkman666 Said

i mean too much of the truth, can more harmful than lie. sometimes, it is better to keep the truth to yourself. then someone know the truth that can hurt them in the long run.



Ah! Thanks.

My first thoughts were that you were speaking of Truth with a small "t", then that you were speaking more of honesty (between people)......"off topic" so to speak. But no, very much on topic.

Very "Dogenist"!! "Truth" not as some sort of final conclusion or revelation, but found each moment. Or something like that!
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