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Did Abraham kill Isaac and other tales of infanticide in religion

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chaski On about 6 hours ago
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Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#151New Post! Dec 06, 2019 @ 07:37:08
@4d4m Said

In other words, maybe the first time Adam killed his son and got his other son to do the dirty work by playing god and getting Cain jealous. That's speculation of course. Possibly he did it himself or Cain just does what the old man tells him, was cursed/rewarded with eternal life for it. As Abraham he did it himself but played god to pass off the blame to someone else. Again speculation. But if Abraham was that powerful he could have forced the story to be rewritten later. The earliest version would have the Ram as representative of Isaac. Remember, they have to preserve these stories too so they have clues as to what to do in their future lifetimes.



Maybe we humans are like cats.

Cats are the only creatures to choose to be domesticated. All other creatures that have been domesticated, were domesticated by humans.

Cats, however, chose to hang out with humans.

So... maybe humans chose to be domesticated by god(s)... go didn't choose us... "we" chose "him"...
4d4m On December 23, 2022




4dforum.org,
#152New Post! Dec 07, 2019 @ 19:51:43
Let's point out another inconsistency in Abrahamic religions; the concept of God being unknowable. The contradiction lies with people hearing the voice of God and being given tablets with law, being possessed hy god or one of his spirits and the like. Islamic art reflects this with the intricate patterns they use in religious art. Either the authors of the Tanakh are stupid ( and think we are too ) and are ignoring a glaring inconsistency or they leave the inconsistency as another point for us to debate.
4d4m On December 23, 2022




4dforum.org,
#153New Post! Dec 07, 2019 @ 20:06:55
Maybe those recognized at the time weren't God at all, simply people using power not understood to pretend to be god. And quite possibly there were more than one taking turns doing it.
chaski On about 6 hours ago
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Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#154New Post! Dec 07, 2019 @ 20:47:29
@4d4m Said

Maybe those recognized at the time weren't God at all, simply people using power not understood to pretend to be god. And quite possibly there were more than one taking turns doing it.



Or maybe the stories are just that: stories... mythology.

After all there is zero proof for the vast majority of biblical characters.
4d4m On December 23, 2022




4dforum.org,
#155New Post! Dec 09, 2019 @ 06:21:51
So you're trying to say that 3500 years of known Abrahamic religion, plus probably about 2200 more years if you are getting clues from the Hebrew calendar, and the relevant similarities with Zoarastrianism dating back even further, have no bearing at all? Do you honestly think people kept those beliefs alive for all that time because absolutely nothing happened that convinced them this stuff is important?
chaski On about 6 hours ago
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Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#156New Post! Dec 09, 2019 @ 06:50:05
@4d4m Said

So you're trying to say that 3500 years of known Abrahamic religion, plus probably about 2200 more years if you are getting clues from the Hebrew calendar, and the relevant similarities with Zoarastrianism dating back even further, have no bearing at all? Do you honestly think people kept those beliefs alive for all that time because absolutely nothing happened that convinced them this stuff is important?



Believe the myth all you want. There are myths that predate the Abrahamic myths.

No bearing? In what way? Teaching as metaphors or claiming to present reality,

Truth is a pathless land
chaski On about 6 hours ago
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Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#157New Post! Dec 09, 2019 @ 06:58:37
@4d4m Said

So you're trying to say that 3500 years of known Abrahamic religion, plus probably about 2200 more years if you are getting clues from the Hebrew calendar, and the relevant similarities with Zoarastrianism dating back even further, have no bearing at all? Do you honestly think people kept those beliefs alive for all that time because absolutely nothing happened that convinced them this stuff is important?



So you are saying that the world the the earth is only 6000 years +/- old?

All there is is the Abrahamic religions... oh and plus Zoarastrianism... but not plus the Hindus... Buddhism... not the Pagans... the Egyptian... the Greek... the various mythologies... all there is, is the teachings of mythology...

Floods have "plagued" humans, who always live near water, for millennia... and continue to "plague" humans, who always live near water, to this day... thus ancient myths of world floods are real...



So in another thousand years the floods in New Orleans following H. Katrina will be a new proof of a disasterous world destroying flood in the bible... in Babylonian myth... in the myths of virtually every culture...

chaski On about 6 hours ago
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Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#158New Post! Dec 09, 2019 @ 07:02:26
@4d4m Said

So you're trying to say that 3500 years of known Abrahamic religion, plus probably about 2200 more years if you are getting clues from the Hebrew calendar, and the relevant similarities with Zoarastrianism dating back even further, have no bearing at all?


Yes.

That is what I am saying.

Truth is a pathless land... mythology and religions do not lead to truth, but to subjugation of the gullible, the dumb, the stupid, the willfully ignorant... turning over power and wealth to those that happily take advantage of the gullible, the dumb, the stupid, the willfully ignorant.
4d4m On December 23, 2022




4dforum.org,
#159New Post! Dec 09, 2019 @ 07:11:39
Teaching as metaphors means the addition of some sort of moral reasoning behind the historic occurrences in the Bible. I would say this is the primary use of the religions, as a means to control people. This obviously has happened but how? Don't you think people would have long ago abandoned it if there wasn't something going on so they would see how it does represent reality in some form?
chaski On about 6 hours ago
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Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#160New Post! Dec 09, 2019 @ 07:13:21
@4d4m Said

So you're trying to say that 3500 years of known Abrahamic religion, plus probably about 2200 more years if you are getting clues from the Hebrew calendar, and the relevant similarities with Zoarastrianism dating back even further, have no bearing at all? Do you honestly think people kept those beliefs alive for all that time because absolutely nothing happened that convinced them this stuff is important?



And, since I'm on a role, please present one (any) Abrahamic story (belief) that has any proof (factual basis) to it.

Any story... start form creation all the way to the death of Jesus...

Note #1: It is pretty clear that Jesus was a real person and was executed, so please pick something before him.
Note #2: Similarly Mohammad was also clearly a real person, though the "facts" of his status as a prophet of god are highly questionable.
Note #3: As an aside, feel free to present a link between Zoarastrianism and the Abrahamic religions.
chaski On about 6 hours ago
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Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#161New Post! Dec 09, 2019 @ 07:14:19
@4d4m Said

Teaching as metaphors means the addition of some sort of moral reasoning behind the historic occurrences in the Bible.


No it doesn't.

You are making a huge leap from parable to factual events.

The vast majority of the bible cannot be shown to be "historical".... just as a starting point.
chaski On about 6 hours ago
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Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#162New Post! Dec 09, 2019 @ 07:16:27
@4d4m Said

Don't you think people would have long ago abandoned it if there wasn't something going on so they would see how it does represent reality in some form?


No.

People are astonishingly gullible... modern Politics proves that.. as well as mythology turned into "reality".
chaski On about 6 hours ago
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Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#163New Post! Dec 09, 2019 @ 07:22:36
@4d4m Said


in the Bible.




And now comes the point in the conversation, as I have for the last 12 years hear on TFS, to ask:

>>> Have you actually read the Bible? ALL of it? From 1st word to last? And have then also studied it and its formation/compilation? <<<

Side note: I have... my entire adult life.
4d4m On December 23, 2022




4dforum.org,
#164New Post! Dec 09, 2019 @ 07:28:39
And it's great that you have. Have you seen or experienced anything at all, I'm not asking for specifics so yes or no will do, that makes you think there is some basis to the stories in the bible? Anything at all out of the ordinary, possibly supernatural or just unusual.
chaski On about 6 hours ago
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Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#165New Post! Dec 09, 2019 @ 16:43:32
@4d4m Said

And it's great that you have. Have you seen or experienced anything at all, I'm not asking for specifics so yes or no will do, that makes you think there is some basis to the stories in the bible?


"Anything"...? Sure, yes.

I know that you didn't want me to elaborate, but asking for "anything" is an insufficient answer because quite a few mythological stories have basis in fact.

For example Jesus as a person is referenced by Flavius Josephus. Now Josephus does not provide any support of the claim that Jesus is the "son of god". That is, there is "something" that is a basis for the story of Jesus.

@4d4m Said

Anything at all out of the ordinary, possibly supernatural or just unusual.


As to this part, no.
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