Is it moral for our governments to impose poverty on us?

Is it moral for our government to take from those who have prospered and give it to those who have not?

(just playing devils advocate)


IMHO - It is the "1%'ers" that should Willingly help reduce poverty (and a few are ... finally)

Note: Approximately 44% of the U.S. population has income levels so low that they do not actually pay Federal or State income tax, though everyone pays sales tax. This actually helps the low income person/family, though not by very much. The 56% paying income taxes (plus the 50-75% of undocumented immigrants also paying income tax) are not actually (for the most part) at the poverty level. And, yes the rich and big corporations typically bet a pass.

I don't actually see how the government, by way of taxing, is imposing poverty on us. The tax burden rides on the backs of the middle class, not those at/below the poverty level.

Interest rates are the problem to me.

> Bank savings, checking, money market, CD account interest rates are so low that it hardly makes sense even trying to save money by way of a bank (or credit union). The reason to use a bank is to receive one's pay electronically and being able to access one's account via a ATM card.

Meanwhile...

> Credit Card loan rates are predatory.

> Loan rates for auto, home, education and business (to a somewhat lesser extend) are also predatory.

> The credit score system if a fraud.

> Mortgage loan system is also, at its core, a scam.

> Government programs to help bail people out of excessive loan debt (including mortgage debt) are designed to help the banks walk away from debt and do not actually help the owners (at least not the vast majority of "owner" )

> etc

Is the government responsible? In part, but by way of legislation that supports the rich, big companies and financial institutions over the middle class.

The dynamics of being poor are many fold, but taxes are a pretty minor part of the equation.

Ours has been imposing poverty on us since 2008. They call it "Austerity" and apparently it's good for us. It shows (they tell us) that we can all pull together in the good old "Blitz Spirit" and show Johnnie Foreigner that we're prepared to tough it out.

"It", apparently, is the financial crash of 2008, which occurred 11 years ago now and the rest of the world seems to have gotten over. But apparently, it's still all Gordon Brown's fault and despite nine years now of "Good Conservative Government" we still need to "Tighten our belts", "Dig for victory" and "We're all in it together".

Meanwhile, more and more people in poverty are reliant on food banks to have something to eat.

Isn't the austere model one where fewer actions are taken (and less taxes) on behalf of the people?

Seems this would be helpful for a middleclass which wanted to keep their wages.

I can see where you're coming from with the above and as a theory there may be some merit for it in certain circumstances, but not in the way it has been applied by the Tory government in UK.

Tax cuts have been given to the rich and public services for the poor cut. The police have been cut back to the bone, the welfare system is in freefall and the latest Tory wheeze is to remove the "triple lock" which ensures pensioners have a decent retirement. If they get away with it, pensioners will suffer. The Tories are also considering removing the winter fuel payments that mean pensioners can heat their homes during the winter. Without those payments, many will die from cold. The Tories don't care.

There is also the "hostile environment" an aggressive anti-immigrant campaign started by the former Home Secretary who at that time was...... wait for it....... Theresa May..!! Trump would love it.

And of course there is the transfer of specialised, targeted welfare payments to those in genuine need to another system called Universal Credit which has been an utter disaster and has led to poverty on a scale not seen in this country since Victorian times.

Universal Credit Has Been A Disaster

And yet... while all this is going on and more and more people fall into poverty, Chancellor of the Exchequer Phillip Hammond recently announced that he has a £26 billion "War Chest" to spend on Brexit.

Yes. £26 Billion. For Brexit. While people have to go to food banks to eat.

Have we got our priorities f***ed up or what..?



And speaking of Brexit, let's just look at a few figures relating to how much that has cost so far:

Since the 2016 referendum:

Cost of EU membership per UK Citizen per day: 34p

Cost spent on Brexit since 2016 so far: 91p per person per day

Estimated overall cost of Brexit: £4.15 per person per day

Estimated cost of No Deal Brexit: £5.81 per person per day

Nigel Farage’s income from TV & radio since 2016: £141.10 per day

Somebody is doing very nicely under the Tories and guess what..... it aint ordinary people.

Fewer taxes sound nice to the poor and low income in theory, until they hit a pothole and total their only means to get to work because the public sector doesn't have enough money for maintenance.

The poorest don't pay taxes.

The richest don't pay taxes.

The middle class pay the taxes.

Yep. Lots of people seem to believe that reducing taxes will help the poor. I say that even if you could grant relief to those people through lower taxes, the benefits would be individually minute. The trade-off for that lovely policy, however, would end up screwing them even more elsewhere because maintenance costs are something we all have to deal with. Hence my earlier statement, lower taxes sound like a good idea for the poor, but in reality it might just make life more difficult for everyone.

This is true yet the stupid politicians are refusing the gift that some wish to pay back as they are ashamed of the tax policies in place.

Regards
DL

Many good points, but you seemed to have failed to recognize, in that graph, how little of the rich loose change would be needed to rid the world of poverty all together and make us all into taxpayers instead of tax takers.

We could talk details till the cows come home, but just look at the graph and the solution and equity and fairness of a new tax law adjusting % s becomes quite easy to visualize.

Regards
DL

I hear you and that is why I promote change in our moral perspective.

Regards
DL

We are basically talking of rich nations who feed the rich instead of the poor.

Wealth is not the problem, as clearly shown in the graph in the O.P.

The poor distribution of wealth is the problem.

Regards
DL

I didn't miss that point, I just think that the causes that effect poverty are more complex than taxes.

To way over simplify my own personal perspective: Education is the answer.

Our present education system, at least in the USA, is like an old car that is barely held together by its nuts and bolts, and the owner of this car (us) is refusing to get a new car that is more practical, more efficient, build via sustainable technology, and run on more advanced forms of fuel.

That metaphorically speaking, of course.