The Forum Site - Join the conversation
Forums:
Sports

The World In Union - The Rugby Forum

Reply to Topic
AuthorMessage
Pages: << · 1 2 3 ...20 21 22 23 · >>
shadowen On March 22, 2024




Bunyip Bend, Australia
#316New Post! Mar 17, 2019 @ 01:50:02
Genia set to join the post world cup exodus...
shadowen On March 22, 2024




Bunyip Bend, Australia
#317New Post! Apr 21, 2019 @ 10:34:17
Jennifer1984 On July 20, 2022
Returner and proud





Penzance, United Kingdom
#318New Post! Apr 21, 2019 @ 11:25:13
Israel Folau Sacked For Homophobic Comments

I don't have a problem with Folau having anti-gay opinions. It's his right to take whatever view he likes.

But in rugby, such things are usually kept "in house". We all know what goes on at post match socials but most of it is in "high spirits" and the game polices itself pretty well.

I used to get taunted during games by opponents trying to wind me up. "Another bloody lesbo playing rugby so she can cop a feel. Well she'd better not try it on me." That sort of thing.

I'd retort with something like: "Nah love, you're not my type. Not with an arse that big. Anyway, my missus was all over you at that last ruck and she's told me she reckons your tits are fake."

Gay rugby players have to be able to look after themselves on the field verbally as well as physically.

What makes me wonder though is just how long the ARU's ban will last with the world cup approaching if they can't find a half decent replacement.

Australian selection policy has, in the past, been flexible to say the least. Driven more by expediency than lofty claims to morality. I wonder what sort of price you might get at the bookies if you wanted to put five bob on Folau being reinstated by September...?? "He's done his time and has expressed remorse for comments made on the spur of the moment". That sort of thing.

Precedent...? Well, I recall that four years ago the ARU had a policy of not selecting players who played for clubs outside the Super Rugby area. Shortly before the last RWC however, when playing resources were looking thin, they "adjusted" the policy in a move that allowed Toulon players Drew Mitchell and Matt Giteau to join the squad.

Well, waddya know....

Folau is a fine and talented player. I doubt a ban will make him change his opinions, nor should be intended thus. He's entitled to his view.

But if Australian rugby is sincere about taking a moral standpoint on homophobia then the casual breezing aside of "policy" for the expediency of the RWC squad shouldn't occur this time around.

Time will tell. I'll keep my five bob on the sideboard for now.
shadowen On March 22, 2024




Bunyip Bend, Australia
#319New Post! Apr 21, 2019 @ 14:10:25
The actions taken by the ARU are total BS. The whole thing is likely to end up in the courts. The ARU itself is hopelessly mismanaged...
shadowen On March 22, 2024




Bunyip Bend, Australia
#320New Post! Apr 21, 2019 @ 14:15:05
By the way, the policy of not selecting overseas based players was purely to encourage players to remain in Australia in order to try and maintain a certain standard among domestic teams, as well as ensure that international players were available for all matches as well as training camps. So it was hardly a so called 'moral' decision.
shadowen On March 22, 2024




Bunyip Bend, Australia
#321New Post! Apr 21, 2019 @ 14:15:36
shadowen On March 22, 2024




Bunyip Bend, Australia
#322New Post! Apr 21, 2019 @ 14:20:45
shadowen On March 22, 2024




Bunyip Bend, Australia
#323New Post! Apr 21, 2019 @ 14:26:05
This is League but still great stuff...


shadowen On March 22, 2024




Bunyip Bend, Australia
#324New Post! Apr 21, 2019 @ 14:43:09
shadowen On March 22, 2024




Bunyip Bend, Australia
#325New Post! Apr 21, 2019 @ 14:46:34
The restructuring of Super Rugby is a real shame with teams from Japan and Argentina being cut. The US style conference system has predictably been a total disaster. The best option would have been to have two divisions with promotion and relegation. This would have given us better quality matches, made more sense and enabled the retention of the teams from Japan and Argentina. Ideally they would also include teams from Tonga, Samoa and Fiji.
shadowen On March 22, 2024




Bunyip Bend, Australia
#326New Post! Apr 23, 2019 @ 17:31:07
@Jennifer1984 Said

I wonder what sort of price you might get at the bookies if you wanted to put five bob on Folau being reinstated by September...??


In Australia you would get very long odds indeed. Feel free to throw away your 5 quid if you want.

@Jennifer1984 Said

But if Australian rugby is sincere about taking a moral standpoint...


The outrageous treatment of Folau is driven primarily by financial considerations and a pervasive Left Wing PC agenda. It's got f^ck all to do with any so called 'moral standpoint'.

Make no mistake, I would love to see Folau reinstated. He should never have been stood down in the first place. But I doubt he will be back this year...even if the courts rule on his side (assuming his case ends up before the courts). Unfortunately, the most likely future for Folau (playing wise) lies in Asia or Europe.

@Jennifer1984 Said

then the casual breezing aside of "policy" for the expediency of the RWC squad shouldn't occur this time around.


The policy you refer to had absolutely nothing to do with any perception of 'morality'. Furthermore, many opposed the policy and in the end a compromise was reached whereby at least a little common sense was allowed to prevail. So no "casual breezing aside of "policy" for the expediency of the RWC squad" in the first place. All the ARU did was belatedly apply a bit of common sense.
shadowen On March 22, 2024




Bunyip Bend, Australia
#327New Post! Apr 23, 2019 @ 17:42:11
It is also somewhat ironic that Vunipola would be cautioned by his club which is named after the Muslim followers of Saladin.
shadowen On March 22, 2024




Bunyip Bend, Australia
#328New Post! Apr 23, 2019 @ 17:48:53
Vunipola has also been formally warned by the RFU who state that they value "inclusivity and respect". What a load of self righteous bollocks. Their so called "inclusivity and respect" is clearly very limited and strictly conditional. Hypocritical w**kers.
Jennifer1984 On July 20, 2022
Returner and proud





Penzance, United Kingdom
#329New Post! Apr 23, 2019 @ 18:10:37
@shadowen Said

In Australia you would get very long odds indeed. Feel free to throw away your 5 quid if you want.


It's five bob. That's shillings in old money. But I think you know that <wink> And like I said, I'll keep it to one side for now.


@shadowen Said

The outrageous treatment of Folau is driven primarily by financial considerations and a pervasive Left Wing PC agenda. It's got f^ck all to do with any so called 'moral standpoint'.


What's outrageous about it..? I must confess I'm presuming here, but I am sure the ARU has some rule about bringing the game into disrepute or similar and that would be a charge with a very broad interpretation.

In this country, such statements would DEFINITELY be considered to bring rugby - a sport that has a very high reputation for inclusiveness - into disrepute. Quite what you have to do to further damage the reputation of Australian rugby I don't know.

As for any left-wing agenda, only a right-winger would object to that. I lean to the centre-left myself, and I was a lesbian rugby player (and a lifelong fan of the game) so I have a vested interest in wanting to see all sorts of religious, anti-homosexual bigotry driven out of the game that I love.

I want to see rugby as inclusive.... open to everybody who loves the game, not exclusive only to those who support extremist right wing agendas. Something else for you and I to disagree about.

His remarks may be welcomed among religious extremists and other right wing fanatics, but in the modern age, image is important. Folau's comments tarnish the image of Australian Rugby Union in the wider sporting world.



@shadowen Said

Make no mistake, I would love to see Folau reinstated. He should never have been stood down in the first place. But I doubt he will be back this year...even if the courts rule on his side (assuming his case ends up before the courts). Unfortunately, the most likely future for Folau (playing wise) lies in Asia or Europe.


I suspect the ARU want him back and will let the courts get them out of the hole his stooopid comments have put them in. If the courts reinstate him I doubt the ARU would appeal the decision. They can claim to have made a principled stance but must obey the law. Job done.

I would love to see him back for his playing ability. He is a very fine player. That is not in question. Australia are a better team with him in it. But in my opinion he should apologise for his comments and make a public commitment to accepting diversity while representing his country, whatever his private views may be. This means not making hateful public statements condemning those of the LGBT community who are involved in the game at whatever level.

The game is called "Union" for a reason.


@shadowen Said

The policy you refer to had absolutely nothing to do with any perception of 'morality'. Furthermore, many opposed the policy and in the end a compromise was reached whereby at least a little common sense was allowed to prevail. So no "casual breezing aside of "policy" for the expediency of the RWC squad" in the first place. All the ARU did was belatedly apply a bit of common sense.


That wasn't how it looked here at the time. Australia were in a tough group with England and Wales and one of those three was going to go out in the group stage.

Did the inclusion of those players make a telling difference in the end..? Probably not. England really were dreadful last time around and deserved to not make the cut.

But it was the timing of the announcement and the way it was done that stank. You can argue that it had nothing to do with expediency, but the irony of the situation was that Australia didn't need to pad the team out with foreign based players for insurance. They could have beaten Stuart Lancaster's team with their eyes shut.

btw.... England didn't select Nick Abendanon or Steffon Armitage who were playing in France at the time. England had a similar policy to Australia, but at least we honoured it.

Abendendon and Armitage Not Selected For RWC 2015 While Playing In France
shadowen On March 22, 2024




Bunyip Bend, Australia
#330New Post! Apr 23, 2019 @ 19:05:43
@Jennifer1984 Said

a sport that has a very high reputation for inclusiveness


Inclusive just so long as nobody dares to express an opinion at odds with the self appointed PC police. How exactly is it inclusive to say that people who hold a particular view can say whatever they want but those who hold another must keep their thoughts to themselves or be ostracised . Inclusive...pig's arse.

@Jennifer1984 Said

wanting to see all sorts of religious, anti-homosexual bigotry driven out of the game that I love.

Just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't mean their views are evidence of bigotry. In Australia Rugby Union is basically only kept alive by the migrant Polynesian community...many of whom hold views similiar to Izzy's. Now the ARU are saying they are welcome just so long as they keep their views to themselves and publicly read the PC script handed to them by the board and a couple of major sponsors.

@Jennifer1984 Said

I want to see rugby as inclusive.... open to everybody who loves the game


You'll be hard pressed to find a community who love the game more than the Polynesians...but you seem to want them excluded if they dare hold views different to your own.


@Jennifer1984 Said

His remarks may be welcomed among religious extremists and other right wing fanatics


Actually many people who are not religious have criticised the actions of the incompetent and hypocritical ARU.

@Jennifer1984 Said

but in the modern age, image is important.


Presumably more important than the right to free speech. What has happened to Izzy is just one more example of liberal tolerance which only displays tolerance towards those who hold similiar views and exhibit very strong (often aggressive) intolerance to those who dare to hold differing views. Interestingly SBW (who has converted to Islam) has effectively expressed stronger views than Izzy with barely anyone batting an eyelid.

@Jennifer1984 Said

I suspect the ARU want him back and will let the courts get them out of the hole his stooopid comments have put them in. If the courts reinstate him I doubt the ARU would appeal the decision. They can claim to have made a principled stance but must obey the law. Job done.


This just displays your complete ignorance of those currently running the ARU and how this is all playing out. You couldn't be more wrong. Unlike you I don't claim you have to live here to understand the depth of feeling...if you wanted to then you could get a pretty good idea by using the internet. Something you obviously havent done.

@Jennifer1984 Said

in my opinion he should apologise


Why should he? All he did was post a quote on his private social media account. If you don't like what he has to say don't read it. If you so desire go ahead and post your own comments. By the way, most people laying into him post/express a great deal of anti-Christian sentiment. But of course it's fine for them to attack his beliefs but a sackable offence for him to dare express his own views.

I wonder, should those attacking his beliefs apologise and seek to be more inclusive. How included does Australia's Polynesian community feel at the moment? And by the way, if you had ever bothered to listen to Izzy talk and/or read some of his posts you would know his comments are not in anyway hateful. As an aside, his post included many other groups but it is only the mention of homosexuals that seems to be an issue.


@Jennifer1984 Said

not making hateful public statements condemning those of the LGBT community.

Again, his comments aren't hateful. Just because you think they are doesn't make them so. He also referenced drunks, adulterers, liars, fornicators, thieves, idolaters etc. You think he hates them as well?

@Jennifer1984 Said

it was the timing of the announcement and the way it was done that stank. You can argue that it had nothing to do with expediency, but the irony of the situation was that Australia didn't need to pad the team out with foreign based players for insurance.


The decision to not select overseas based players came under strong attack right from the start and continued long before the world cup squad was announced. In the end a compromise was reached.

@Jennifer1984 Said

England had a similar policy to Australia, but at least we honoured it.


The ARU belatedly conceded what many had been saying from the start, and that was that it was an unfair and damaging policy. So they changed it...well more modified than changed. You however seem to think that it would have been virtuous to stick by a bad policy. That refusing to accept that you made a mistake was somehow 'honourable'. Amazing.
Reply to Topic<< Previous Topic | Next Topic >>
Pages: << · 1 2 3 ...20 21 22 23 · >>

1 browsing (0 members - 1 guest)

Quick Reply
Be Respectful of Others

      
Subscribe to topic prefs

Similar Topics
    Forum Topic Last Post Replies Views
New posts   Random
Fri Jun 14, 2013 @ 20:05
36 1313
New posts   Sports
Mon Dec 02, 2013 @ 15:03
14 1409
New posts   Sports
Sun Oct 21, 2007 @ 20:33
149 7300
New posts   Sports
Sat Jun 23, 2012 @ 14:01
1 350
New posts   Politics
Sun Apr 22, 2007 @ 17:42
13 707