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What is 'Toxic Masculinity' Really?

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Cpat92 On 20 minutes ago
Why So Serious??





Lauderhill, Florida
#61New Post! Feb 11, 2019 @ 09:15:51
@DiscordTiger Said

Basically what he said below:



But yeah, nothing is wrong with competition until it goes too far, or to use another term “becomes toxic”.
Nothing is wrong with most things until they go too far. It’s the toxic level that’s the problem, not the masculinity.

Masculinity is awesome, until individuals take a trait too far and that needs to be addressed by them.

Also by society to stop making excuses. You don’t get to be and asstard, to use chassis phrase just because your male. You need to be responsible for your own asstardness.

I think by pointing out what becomes toxic, it actually proves “not all men”. But yet the general rection to the phrase “toxic masculinity” tends to become a little irrational.

And yet apparently toxic irrationalness or hystericalness is supposed to be a female thing. That’s why we were kept from power, leadership, voting, working out side the home, and even being able to manage our own money and bodies for centuries.



I understand your point of view, trust me I do, but I just feel like this isn't right at all. Especially from a scientific point of view. I feel the APA chose PC over science and in my opinion political correctness is becoming more toxic than helpful. While having the potential to help society, it's partially the reason why the rifts in society aren't closing. This is an example due to the misconception.

To this point, if you want equality, how can you do so by calling out individuals and telling them they're wrong? Many of those calling individuals out, are just as bad and they seek those same excuses society may use. Yes, competition can go too far, but that's where mentors step in. There is a larger number of good people over the amount "asstards" in this world. If we worry about pointing out their flaws, then we won't progress as a society.
offbeat On February 17, 2019




london, United Kingdom
#62New Post! Feb 11, 2019 @ 11:57:54
@psycoskunk Said

2 years ago I was standing at the bus stop waiting to go to a shift at the aquarium. Two young girls (younger than me) came running up from around the corner, laughing and out of breath. The taller one of the two asked me if I knew if the Metrotown bus boarded here...

Important Side Note: The bus that goes to the Aquarium and the bus that go to Metrotown are the same bus (19), just in opposite directions. They were on the wrong side just as a bus was pulling in.

...I said "It does, but it's on the other side." I think she took it as me saying "the other side of this block," so when she said "Thanks" and went to go run past me, I stopped her and pointed across the street saying "No, wait! I meant it boards across the street. Sorry about that."

Out of nowhere, her friend pushes me fairly hard and yells "Did you really just f***ing mansplain where the bus is?! The hell is wrong with you?" Both me and the taller girl give her a confused look while she looks really pissed off for some reason. I replied "The hell are you talking about? I was just telling her the bus stop was across the street. It was a simple mix-up. Calm down." The angry girl is about to go off again, but her friend steps in and tells her to calm down as well. Just as the bus starts to pull away, the two of them start arguing and I mentioned about the bus, but I don't think they heard me.

Thankfully they were too wrapped up in their fight to notice my bus arrived, so I just hopped on and rode to work. Also got to be serenaded by a drunk guy who got on the wrong bus. Good times.



I was horrified to read a tweet by a respected tv scientist that used the sexist term 'mansplaining' after a man had the nerve to ..er.. explain something. I challenged her on this and all of a sudden I was surrounded by a bunch of her 'feminist' fans. they only filtered away when I said that their hero could be guilty of 'femsplaining!' it must have blown their minds. a few weeks later, I read that this sexist scientist was appointed as president of an important public organization.unbelievable.
offbeat On February 17, 2019




london, United Kingdom
#63New Post! Feb 11, 2019 @ 12:02:05
@Cpat92 Said

Basically, many traits within "traditional masculinity" are now considered toxic masculinity.



it's only being considered toxic because the radical 'feminists' have realized that they can't compete against traditional men in the elite job market. so, they are trying to break down men by labelling the traits that lead to their success as toxic.it will be interesting to see if those 'natural' testosterone related traits have managed to survive in 10 years time. if they do then I hope i'm still around to smile about it.
shadowen On about 9 hours ago




Bunyip Bend, Australia
#64New Post! Feb 11, 2019 @ 13:36:09
"It’s the toxic level that’s the problem, not the masculinity."
I would say it's the perceived toxic behaviour of INDIVIDUALS (men AND women) that may be considered a problem. The reality is that some people (men AND women alike) act in a way that may be considered toxic. It's got nothing to do with gender. Nothing. And yet by calling the perceived poor behaviour of some men an example of "toxic masculinity" you in effect have a go at all men whilst giving toxic women a free pass. And this is what feminism constantly does. It encourages women to see themselves as victims whilst presenting men in general in a poor light. It perpetuates the lie that whilst women have problems men cause problems. It asserts that only women can be victims whilst men can only be offenders. It also idealises feminine traits whilst demonising male traits. If individuals are perceived to behave in a manner that is deemed toxic then by all means say so, just don't introduce identity politics into an assessment of an individuals behaviour.

"Masculinity is awesome, until individuals take a trait too far and that needs to be addressed by them."
That holds equally true for women. Again, perceived poor/toxic behaviour is NOT a gender issue. It's an INDIVIDUAL issue.

"You don’t get to be and asstard...just because your male. You need to be responsible for your own asstardness."
Substitute "male" for "female" and the above statement would be EQUALLY valid. EVERYONE (men AND women) need to be responsible for their own actions. This is NOT a gender issue.


"I think by pointing out what becomes toxic, it actually proves “not all men”. But yet the general rection to the phrase “toxic masculinity” tends to become a little irrational."
The term "toxic masculinity" is irrational, no less so than the term "toxic femininity".

By the way using phrases like "not all men" infers that "most men" are. It's like saying for example that a particular group of people who are from the same racial group etc tend to have/share certain negative characteristics/traits but then saying "but they're not ALL like that!"
DiscordTiger On about 3 hours ago
The Queen of Random

Administrator




Emerald City, United States (g
#65New Post! Feb 11, 2019 @ 19:39:48
@Cpat92 Said

I understand your point of view, trust me I do, but I just feel like this isn't right at all. Especially from a scientific point of view. I feel the APA chose PC over science and in my opinion political correctness is becoming more toxic than helpful. While having the potential to help society, it's partially the reason why the rifts in society aren't closing. This is an example due to the misconception.

To this point, if you want equality, how can you do so by calling out individuals and telling them they're wrong? Many of those calling individuals out, are just as bad and they seek those same excuses society may use. Yes, competition can go too far, but that's where mentors step in. There is a larger number of good people over the amount "asstards" in this world. If we worry about pointing out their flaws, then we won't progress as a society.


Ok, and I’m saying this because you plan to go into that field.

Psychologists have to deal with people that are flawed. That’s literally their job.
Like if you have a sex offender, you have to point out their flaws and fix them. Society (as the group that makes laws) lays out what behavior is wrong, and the psychologist has to work with offender to fix it. There is a practical application that psychologists and psychiatrists need to work with actual people with problems.

Maybe some in society can ignore it but it is dangerous for the APA to do so, because it is literally their job. Once someone gets to the point of using any type of counseling, and the worker placates them because “everyone has problems” they are bad at their job. And if anyone I knew went to a counselor like that, I would immediately recommend they find a new one. The whole point of therapy is to take action to alter your situation, whether it be through changing behavior or changing coping mechanisms, but denying the problem exists makes everything worse.
DiscordTiger On about 3 hours ago
The Queen of Random

Administrator




Emerald City, United States (g
#66New Post! Feb 11, 2019 @ 19:51:10
I also get how society deals with things and can go to extremes to the point it gets silly, but the APA has to deal with practical and people with actual problems.

So as much as you say “not all men”
The APA deals with ones that do have the toxic issues. No matter what type of toxicness, whether it’s dealing with masculinity, femininity, personality or and other behaviors or issues.
DiscordTiger On about 3 hours ago
The Queen of Random

Administrator




Emerald City, United States (g
#67New Post! Feb 11, 2019 @ 20:11:36
@shadowen Said

"It’s the toxic level that’s the problem, not the masculinity."
I would say it's the perceived toxic behaviour of INDIVIDUALS (men AND women) that may be considered a problem. The reality is that some people (men AND women alike) act in a way that may be considered toxic. It's got nothing to do with gender. Nothing. And yet by calling the perceived poor behaviour of some men an example of "toxic masculinity" you in effect have a go at all men whilst giving toxic women a free pass. And this is what feminism constantly does. It encourages women to see themselves as victims whilst presenting men in general in a poor light. It perpetuates the lie that whilst women have problems men cause problems. It asserts that only women can be victims whilst men can only be offenders. It also idealises feminine traits whilst demonising male traits. If individuals are perceived to behave in a manner that is deemed toxic then by all means say so, just don't introduce identity politics into an assessment of an individuals behaviour.

"Masculinity is awesome, until individuals take a trait too far and that needs to be addressed by them."
That holds equally true for women. Again, perceived poor/toxic behaviour is NOT a gender issue. It's an INDIVIDUAL issue.

"You don’t get to be and asstard...just because your male. You need to be responsible for your own asstardness."
Substitute "male" for "female" and the above statement would be EQUALLY valid. EVERYONE (men AND women) need to be responsible for their own actions. This is NOT a gender issue.


"I think by pointing out what becomes toxic, it actually proves “not all men”. But yet the general rection to the phrase “toxic masculinity” tends to become a little irrational."
The term "toxic masculinity" is irrational, no less so than the term "toxic femininity".

By the way using phrases like "not all men" infers that "most men" are. It's like saying for example that a particular group of people who are from the same racial group etc tend to have/share certain negative characteristics/traits but then saying "but they're not ALL like that!"


Usually its men saying "not all men." Most of your post was saying the same thing., when you go on about it being an individual issue or that some women do it too. Its a concept of behavior of people on line, that is why I put it in quotes. Not that I was inferring anything about stereotypes and most of any group.
DiscordTiger On about 3 hours ago
The Queen of Random

Administrator




Emerald City, United States (g
#68New Post! Feb 11, 2019 @ 20:16:44
@Cpat92 Said

I understand your point of view, trust me I do, but I just feel like this isn't right at all. Especially from a scientific point of view. I feel the APA chose PC over science and in my opinion political correctness is becoming more toxic than helpful. While having the potential to help society, it's partially the reason why the rifts in society aren't closing. This is an example due to the misconception.

To this point, if you want equality, how can you do so by calling out individuals and telling them they're wrong? Many of those calling individuals out, are just as bad and they seek those same excuses society may use. Yes, competition can go too far, but that's where mentors step in. There is a larger number of good people over the amount "asstards" in this world. If we worry about pointing out their flaws, then we won't progress as a society.




If we don't point out flaws, we might as well bury our heads in the sand and nothing in society will progress.

besides all it takes for asstards to succeed is for good people to say nothing. I'm not willing to stay silent when my voice can help make something better. That is just how I am.

So it sounds like we are just at different ends of the spectrum, c'est la vie.
nooneinparticular On about 8 hours ago




, Hawaii
#69New Post! Feb 11, 2019 @ 23:01:41
@Cpat92 Said

Can you name any of these "treatment options?" There is no treatment. It's a guideline of how to raise boys into men within today's society.


Actually it's not. It lists very little about preventative treatment or "how to raise boys into men within today's society". In fact, I think the only things 'preventative' in the entire doc I saw were a section about how constructive father involvement was good for male child outcomes and how exposure to school activities might help them cope. It lists, as guidelines, mostly ways in which mental health workers can understand and work with disenfranchised men and boys in order to help steer them away from self-destructive tendencies. Get them involved with support groups, being understanding of where they're coming from, that sort of thing.

It is a set of guidelines largely committed to helping disenfranchised boys and men, boys and men who experience identity crisis because they don't conform to norms. It's not about changing male culture. In fact, I'd argue it's largely about ignoring the predominant male culture in favor of becoming happy with who you are as a boy or man as opposed to being angry and depressed over who you aren't as a boy or man.
psycoskunk On February 16, 2019
Funky-Footed Skunk





A fort made of stinky socks, C
#70New Post! Feb 12, 2019 @ 01:39:12
Toxic is a non-damaging Poison-type move in Pokémon that badly poisons the target. It has an accuracy of 90% unless used by a Poison-type, in which case the move becomes a guaranteed hit. Poison damage is N * x, where N starts at 1 and x is 1/16 of the target's maximum HP (rounded down, but not less than 1). While a Pokémon is badly poisoned, N increases by 1 each turn.

mrmhead On about 1 hour ago




NE, Ohio
#71New Post! Feb 12, 2019 @ 01:50:23
@psycoskunk Said

Toxic is a non-damaging Poison-type move in Pokémon that badly poisons the target. It has an accuracy of 90% unless used by a Poison-type, in which case the move becomes a guaranteed hit. Poison damage is N * x, where N starts at 1 and x is 1/16 of the target's maximum HP (rounded down, but not less than 1). While a Pokémon is badly poisoned, N increases by 1 each turn.



That is so right-on.

If someone has a "toxic" attitude towards something, and if it's not kept in check, it only gets worse as time goes on.

The bully gets bullier, until he gets a good smackdown.
Cpat92 On 20 minutes ago
Why So Serious??





Lauderhill, Florida
#72New Post! Feb 12, 2019 @ 06:38:49
@DiscordTiger Said

Ok, and I’m saying this because you plan to go into that field.

Psychologists have to deal with people that are flawed. That’s literally their job.
Like if you have a sex offender, you have to point out their flaws and fix them. Society (as the group that makes laws) lays out what behavior is wrong, and the psychologist has to work with offender to fix it. There is a practical application that psychologists and psychiatrists need to work with actual people with problems.

Maybe some in society can ignore it but it is dangerous for the APA to do so, because it is literally their job. Once someone gets to the point of using any type of counseling, and the worker placates them because “everyone has problems” they are bad at their job. And if anyone I knew went to a counselor like that, I would immediately recommend they find a new one. The whole point of therapy is to take action to alter your situation, whether it be through changing behavior or changing coping mechanisms, but denying the problem exists makes everything worse.


Yes, psychologists are here to help out those who are flawed (depending on the subfield), but it doesn't mean they are correct. Saying it is dangerous for the APA to ignore societal issues isn't necessarily correct as well. It would be wrong for me to take all of this as gospel without even questioning it. Though it's psychology and they are there to help society (whether as a whole, or a portion), it's still science. Within science, everything is not set in stone. Especially in the field of psychology. It is a fact that everyone has issues. Whether big or small, they all have issues. It's not a counselor's job to say everyone has problems, but it is their job to help the one, or few who are coming in for help.
Cpat92 On 20 minutes ago
Why So Serious??





Lauderhill, Florida
#73New Post! Feb 12, 2019 @ 06:39:53
@nooneinparticular Said

Actually it's not. It lists very little about preventative treatment or "how to raise boys into men within today's society". In fact, I think the only things 'preventative' in the entire doc I saw were a section about how constructive father involvement was good for male child outcomes and how exposure to school activities might help them cope. It lists, as guidelines, mostly ways in which mental health workers can understand and work with disenfranchised men and boys in order to help steer them away from self-destructive tendencies. Get them involved with support groups, being understanding of where they're coming from, that sort of thing.

It is a set of guidelines largely committed to helping disenfranchised boys and men, boys and men who experience identity crisis because they don't conform to norms. It's not about changing male culture. In fact, I'd argue it's largely about ignoring the predominant male culture in favor of becoming happy with who you are as a boy or man as opposed to being angry and depressed over who you aren't as a boy or man.



The second paragraph proves why it is wrong.
Cpat92 On 20 minutes ago
Why So Serious??





Lauderhill, Florida
#74New Post! Feb 12, 2019 @ 06:44:47
@DiscordTiger Said

If we don't point out flaws, we might as well bury our heads in the sand and nothing in society will progress.

besides all it takes for asstards to succeed is for good people to say nothing. I'm not willing to stay silent when my voice can help make something better. That is just how I am.

So it sounds like we are just at different ends of the spectrum, c'est la vie.



Society isn't progressing whether, or not we point out these flaws. I'm more than willing than help members of society, but I'm not going to neglect science and replace it with political correctness, or any nonsense.
Cpat92 On 20 minutes ago
Why So Serious??





Lauderhill, Florida
#75New Post! Feb 12, 2019 @ 06:45:23
@psycoskunk Said

Toxic is a non-damaging Poison-type move in Pokémon that badly poisons the target. It has an accuracy of 90% unless used by a Poison-type, in which case the move becomes a guaranteed hit. Poison damage is N * x, where N starts at 1 and x is 1/16 of the target's maximum HP (rounded down, but not less than 1). While a Pokémon is badly poisoned, N increases by 1 each turn.




I'm not a fan of math.
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