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Erimitus On July 01, 2021




The mind of God, Antarctica
#1New Post! Jan 14, 2018 @ 16:46:20
There are always bias errors
chaski On about 13 hours ago
Stalker





Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#2New Post! Jan 14, 2018 @ 16:54:23
Just because one has a bias, doesn't mean one is in error.
Erimitus On July 01, 2021




The mind of God, Antarctica
#3New Post! Jan 15, 2018 @ 02:03:58
@chaski Said

Just because one has a bias, doesn't mean one is in error.



The basic assumptions of a belief system are NOT (from the perspective the believer) assumptions; they are accepted (without question) as fact.

A fact is that which is incontrovertible.

________________________________________

Each person is an individual unit of consciousness.

Each individual unit of consciousness (i.e., person) holds incontrovertible beliefs (i.e., facts) based on their social programming and experience.

________________________________________

A unit of consciousness is born with hardware (i.e., DNA).

The Software of the unit is installed by society.

The apps that a unit of consciousness has access to and that the programmers (society) install depends on the cultural of the particular society into which the unit was born… (Zestiest)

Note: yes I am aware that the preceding is a sentence fragment (i.e., not a complete thought) and that the concept still needs a lot of work. And yes I am sure Willi could say it with a whole lot fewer words but this is the best I could do at the moment without losing my train of thought and yes I do ramble on with pointless irrelevant expansion.

________________________________________

Drat! While I was rambling I lost my train of thought. Double drat!!

AFK…

…BAK

That which a unit of consciousness experiences (both sensory and memory) is data.

A unit’s interpretation of the data input is based on cultural programming.

Separate units may interpret the same data in different ways and from each units point of view their interpretation is incontrovertible (i.e., fact). And …and even when interpretations are antithetical they are both correct from the point of view of the perceiver. (You may have noticed this happening on TFS)

Reader: Please get to the point.

Erimitus: I can’t get to the point; the preceding blithering inanities are pointless.


Post nap comment….


There is cultural Bias and it is true from the point of view of the unit of consciousness that has it.

It is difficult, maybe impossible to be completely objective.
Willi On August 21, 2018




northinmind,
#4New Post! Jan 15, 2018 @ 23:41:07
@Erimitus Said

It is difficult, maybe impossible to be completely objective.


true.
it is hard to unknow things you think are true.
Erimitus On July 01, 2021




The mind of God, Antarctica
#5New Post! Jan 16, 2018 @ 02:08:44
@Willi Said

true.
it is hard to unknow things you think are true.



indeed


Un-knowing may be the first step
Willi On August 21, 2018




northinmind,
#6New Post! Jan 16, 2018 @ 19:31:57
@Erimitus Said

indeed


Un-knowing may be the first step



is being unbiased important?
Erimitus On July 01, 2021




The mind of God, Antarctica
#7New Post! Jan 16, 2018 @ 20:15:49
@Willi Said

is being unbiased important?



If you wish to be objective.

Scientists for example attempt to be as unbiased as possible.

There are individual biases. There are cultural biases. There are universal biases. They all serve the same purpose. If a person had to stop and think about every volitional action very little if anything would be done.

Of course non-doing (Wu-Wi) is considered by some to be the best approach.
Willi On August 21, 2018




northinmind,
#8New Post! Jan 17, 2018 @ 00:06:25
@Erimitus Said

Of course non-doing (Wu-Wi) is considered by some to be the best approach.


do science and non-doing work together?
Erimitus On July 01, 2021




The mind of God, Antarctica
#9New Post! Jan 17, 2018 @ 01:02:02
@Willi Said

do science and non-doing work together?



I had not thought of that but yes.

Creating a hypothesis (metaphysics) requires doing. Testing the hypothesis is best done by non-doing.
Willi On August 21, 2018




northinmind,
#10New Post! Jan 17, 2018 @ 01:32:10
@Erimitus Said

I had not thought of that but yes.

Creating a hypothesis (metaphysics) requires doing. Testing the hypothesis is best done by non-doing.



is observation the same non-doing?
Erimitus On July 01, 2021




The mind of God, Antarctica
#11New Post! Jan 17, 2018 @ 02:57:55
@Willi Said

is observation the same non-doing?



Observation (Perception) is the identification, organization and interpretation of data. This (I believe) is best done with minimum bias.

Data is an organized collection of pieces of information about an object.

A disorganized collection of pieces of information is not data. It is just a chaotic collection of bits. Once organized the pieces of information (bits) may be interpreted. Interpretation always has some degree of bias (i.e., presupposition). We were programmed by society to accept certain beliefs as fact. It is difficult (at least for me) to give up my facts i.e., Presuppositions). Hence the bias…

And off I go on one of my tangents.

Data is an organized collection of pieces of information about an object.

There is that which is not perceptible


There is that which is perceptible

When that which is perceptible is being perceived it is an object. (i.e., the object of perception)

So…

Data is an organized collection of pieces of information about that which is perceptible when itis being perceived.

Perception is the identification, organization and interpretation of a collection of pieces of information about that which is perceptible when that which is perceptible it is being perceived.

The potential for a reasonably accurate identification, organization, and interpretation of data increases when there is minimal bias.

________________________________________

There are (as you probably know) five major theories of that which is truth.

Science (If I understand correctly and I probably don’t but there is always a fist time) …science uses the correspondence theory of truth (i.e., a reasonably close correspondence between that which is believed and that which is the case).

Yes, I am aware of species specific perception. Here I am speaking of humans is a particular culture.

Anyway…

If a human is able to approximate that which is the case the potential for survival increases.

Cultural bias has evolved (through trial and error – re-search) as a practical approximation of that which is the case.

I am just writing the thoughts as they come to me and that is why it is disorganized and not data worth interpreting.

A problem is that antiquated vestigial biases can be disastrous (i.e., decrease the potential for survival).

I don’t remember where I was going with this or where I intended to be when I got there but the thought has (as usual) withered on the conceptual vine. Alas …it is all meaningless irrelevant babbling anyway.


Thank you for the question. It got my neurons to firing. Randomly (of course) but firing.
Willi On August 21, 2018




northinmind,
#12New Post! Jan 17, 2018 @ 16:32:28
@Erimitus Said

A problem is that antiquated vestigial biases can be disastrous (i.e., decrease the potential for survival).



I saw a bird fly.
I made a kite, it flew.
wind must push up?
a kite has a tale like a bird.
the tale must be to keep the kite angled to catch the wind.
the wind must push up.
I made a plane.
the plane must go fast so the wind pushes it up.

LIFT?????
who needs lift???
what is lift, all I need is the wind pushing up on the wings!!!
Eaglebauer On July 23, 2019
Moderator
Deleted



Saint Louis, Missouri
#13New Post! Jan 22, 2018 @ 13:20:41
@Erimitus Said

If you wish to be objective.

Scientists for example attempt to be as unbiased as possible.

There are individual biases. There are cultural biases. There are universal biases. They all serve the same purpose. If a person had to stop and think about every volitional action very little if anything would be done.

Of course non-doing (Wu-Wi) is considered by some to be the best approach.



Why is objectivity instantly of more value than subjectivity? I'd argue that biases are in some cases necessarily built in to the human mind for defense and should remain so. You mention vestigial biases in another post above, I'm not sure I know what you mean by those, but I believe biases are at least in part a product of personal experience. Sometimes they lead to things like racism, but sometimes they lead to things like a young woman avoiding a suspicious looking, much larger and stronger man who she does not know. That sort of bias is beneficial to her.

She does not objectively know the man's character or anything about his history, but does that matter in her case if she sees him on a dark street with no one else around? Does objectivity count as much then?

Maybe I am taking the question in a direction you didn't intend and if so...ignore me
Erimitus On July 01, 2021




The mind of God, Antarctica
#14New Post! Jan 22, 2018 @ 17:36:31
---------------------------

Eagle: Why is objectivity instantly of more value than subjectivity?

E: In science objectivity is important.


Eagle: …in some cases [Bias’ are] necessarily built in to the human mind for defense and should remain so.

E: I do not know. Are you saying that bias’ are inherent?

E: How are we defining bias?

________________________________________

Eagle: You mention vestigial biases in another post above, I'm not sure I know what you mean by those,

E: Biases change. Some biases remain after they no longer serve any purpose.

________________________________________

Eagle: I believe biases are at least in part a product of personal experience.

E: I do not know. I have been thinking of biases as learned and had not considered the possibility of genetic bias.

________________________________________

Eagle: Sometimes [Biases] lead to things like racism

E: Possibly primitive society (i.e., tribal unit) competing with another tribal unit for limited resources would be xenophobic. I am not sure what the origin of racism is but have been thinking of it as a learned cultural bias.

E: I can see that distrust of that which is foreign could be genetic but I am still skeptical.

Eagle: sometimes [biases] lead to things like a young woman avoiding a suspicious looking, much larger and stronger man who she does not know. That sort of bias is beneficial to her.

E: yes

Eage: She does not objectively know the man's character or anything about his history, but does that matter in her case if she sees him on a dark street with no one else around?
E: assessment of another’s character is subjective. Man is objective. Large is relative, based on experience and subjective. Fear of large men (as I understand it) is learned.

Eagle: Does objectivity count as much [when encountering a threat]?

E: yes

Eagle: Maybe I am taking the question in a direction you didn't intend and if so...ignore me.

E: we go where it takes us….
chaski On about 13 hours ago
Stalker





Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#15New Post! Jan 22, 2018 @ 18:42:29
With the exception of some extreme survival situations, it (IMO) is better for the adult to be rational and objective.

Subjective action based on a personal history of objective thought....once one has learned, one's response is no longer objective, but rather subjective based on the previously gathered objective data.

Or something like that.
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