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Internal conflict to prevent external conflict

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Conflict On April 22, 2024




Alcalá de Henares, Spain
#1New Post! Oct 26, 2016 @ 09:12:00
Since 2011, we've started a new trend, one that we've never even thought of. In the past, nations used to clash with on another. Until said year, that was the way conflict worked. Now, some idiot came up with the idea that if we let a nation fight itself and render enough aid to help, but not to prevent a war within the country, we can prevent wars between nations.

Syria is the place where this freak experiment was carried out and today we're living the consequences. Instead of removing the man who started the civil war before the worst destruction was wrought on the nation, we let him stay in power and massacre countless people, destroy entire parts of cities and drive over a million people away their own homes.

Now, could we please discuss the rationale of this new philosophy?
mrmhead On March 27, 2024




NE, Ohio
#2New Post! Oct 26, 2016 @ 11:54:52
The opposition (internal) wasn't large enough and strong enough to quickly overthrow Assad.

Isn't that what happened years ago in Iraq with the Kurds against Hussein?
And more recently in Turkey - Ergodan snuffed out a coup attempt.

When the opposition is not strong enough to support itself and needs outside help is when we get mired in this mess of nation (re)building and puppet governments.

That's what the Arab Spring was all about. Some succeeded, others not so much.
chaski On April 19, 2024
Stalker





Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#3New Post! Oct 26, 2016 @ 15:24:26
@Conflict Said

Since 2011, we've started a new trend, one that we've never even thought of. In the past, nations used to clash with on another. Until said year, that was the way conflict worked. Now, some idiot came up with the idea that if we let a nation fight itself and render enough aid to help, but not to prevent a war within the country, we can prevent wars between nations.

Syria is the place where this freak experiment was carried out and today we're living the consequences. Instead of removing the man who started the civil war before the worst destruction was wrought on the nation, we let him stay in power and massacre countless people, destroy entire parts of cities and drive over a million people away their own homes.

Now, could we please discuss the rationale of this new philosophy?



This sort of thing didn't start in 2011 and it didn't start in Syria. In fact, Syria is a poor example.

In the Middle East in more recent times Iraq (2003) would actually seem to be the starting point, for this sort of "freak experiment". Of course with Iraq the goal was to draw terrorists to Iraq so there could be one single battle ground...a poorly thought out and poorly executed "experiment".

Anyway, one could easily point to Lebanon (early 1980's) as the starting point for the use of "internal conflict", though the dynamics there were very complicated.

One could also point to sub-Sahara Africa where his sort of thing has been going on for decades.

It has actually been going on around the world in varying degrees for centuries; divide and conquer.

As to the Middle East:

The entire ME country layout is a Western European-America construct which started in the early 1900's. What we are seeing now in terms of violence has been brewing for at least 70 years if not longer.

The Kurds are prime example. What probably should be Kurdistan (the land of the Kurds) was divided up between four countries (Turkey, Syria, Iraq and Iran). Granted the divide and conquer tool didn't use civil war that time. None the less it was an artificial construct which has led to violence in the form of terrorism internal to each of the four countries owing Kurdistan. This internal conflict has kept the four countries partially occupied for decades...which was probably part of the goal...along with oil...but that is a different topic.

Regional conflicts have always been a tool in the ME. The Iraq and Iran war was an example...keeping the two countries busy in a protracted war (20 years I think).

Still a status of mostly peaceful has always been the goal.

The Syria conflict is problematic for the West, and was not a desired goal.

When Syria falls who is next? Jordan most likely.

Then...? Saudi Arabia...eventually that is inevitable.

We easily have a few decades of ME conflict ahead.

It is all very problematic for the West. IF "we" had alternate energy sources that made oil impractical, then maybe these conflicts would do "us" service. As it stands, we are addicted and the ME conflicts risk the inflation of the cost of our "drug"; oil.

etc

(Sorry...I might have been rambling a bit there...)
Eaglebauer On July 23, 2019
Moderator
Deleted



Saint Louis, Missouri
#4New Post! Oct 26, 2016 @ 15:58:18
@mrmhead Said

The opposition (internal) wasn't large enough and strong enough to quickly overthrow Assad.

Isn't that what happened years ago in Iraq with the Kurds against Hussein?
And more recently in Turkey - Ergodan snuffed out a coup attempt.

When the opposition is not strong enough to support itself and needs outside help is when we get mired in this mess of nation (re)building and puppet governments.

That's what the Arab Spring was all about. Some succeeded, others not so much.



You know what Saddam Hussein and Little Miss Muffet had in common?

They both had Kurds in their way.


Conflict On April 22, 2024




Alcalá de Henares, Spain
#5New Post! Oct 26, 2016 @ 19:46:54
@chaski Said

This sort of thing didn't start in 2011 and it didn't start in Syria. In fact, Syria is a poor example.

In the Middle East in more recent times Iraq (2003) would actually seem to be the starting point, for this sort of "freak experiment". Of course with Iraq the goal was to draw terrorists to Iraq so there could be one single battle ground...a poorly thought out and poorly executed "experiment".

Anyway, one could easily point to Lebanon (early 1980's) as the starting point for the use of "internal conflict", though the dynamics there were very complicated.

One could also point to sub-Sahara Africa where his sort of thing has been going on for decades.

It has actually been going on around the world in varying degrees for centuries; divide and conquer.

As to the Middle East:

The entire ME country layout is a Western European-America construct which started in the early 1900's. What we are seeing now in terms of violence has been brewing for at least 70 years if not longer.

The Kurds are prime example. What probably should be Kurdistan (the land of the Kurds) was divided up between four countries (Turkey, Syria, Iraq and Iran). Granted the divide and conquer tool didn't use civil war that time. None the less it was an artificial construct which has led to violence in the form of terrorism internal to each of the four countries owing Kurdistan. This internal conflict has kept the four countries partially occupied for decades...which was probably part of the goal...along with oil...but that is a different topic.

Regional conflicts have always been a tool in the ME. The Iraq and Iran war was an example...keeping the two countries busy in a protracted war (20 years I think).

Still a status of mostly peaceful has always been the goal.

The Syria conflict is problematic for the West, and was not a desired goal.

When Syria falls who is next? Jordan most likely.

Then...? Saudi Arabia...eventually that is inevitable.

We easily have a few decades of ME conflict ahead.

It is all very problematic for the West. IF "we" had alternate energy sources that made oil impractical, then maybe these conflicts would do "us" service. As it stands, we are addicted and the ME conflicts risk the inflation of the cost of our "drug"; oil.

etc

(Sorry...I might have been rambling a bit there...)


Not at all, Chaski. You spent your time well. I applaud your effort. I learned quite a few things from your feedback that I didn't know before and I hope everyone else who read your post did too.

So, internal conflict has been practiced long before Syria. This is most disturbing. I admire conflict, but not within nations. for two reasons.

1) Would you go to war with your own flesh to settle an eating disorder, hoping to shed enough blood and fat to reduce your body weight?

2) Would you willingly risk eradicating or devastating your own home so someone else can live better in theirs, free of premature death or crippling injury? Would you want to let a faceless people benefit from your sacrifice?

I think not, but then again, I'm speaking only for myself. Answer either of these questions, please.
Electric_Banana On about 6 hours ago




, New Zealand
#6New Post! Oct 26, 2016 @ 21:31:21
Given any conflict if you leave the aggressor be to be itself it will inevitably destroy what friends, support, ingenuity, genius and love that it had thereby eradicating itself.

US and UK presence are just making the bandage harder to peel off faster and jeopardizing home fronts.

Who knows? Maybe those 'dirty' Mexicans are sitting on oil, maybe everyone should just resign to walking off their big fat asses.

Technically the US would be in even more need of prisons but prisons often times make their own vacancies through the course or nature and guards taking smoke breaks.
chaski On April 19, 2024
Stalker





Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#7New Post! Oct 26, 2016 @ 23:41:16
@Conflict Said


1) Would you go to war with your own flesh to settle an eating disorder, hoping to shed enough blood and fat to reduce your body weight?

2) Would you willingly risk eradicating or devastating your own home so someone else can live better in theirs, free of premature death or crippling injury? Would you want to let a faceless people benefit from your sacrifice?



Q-1: If I understand the question, no. On the other hand I do to an extent believe the biblical adage if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off which, of course, is referring to the idea that your right hand has severe gangrene and will slowly poison you to death if you don't cut it off.

Q-2: Soldiers do this all the time.

So here is my question to you:

What would it take for you to volunteer to go to a war that you didn't agree with?
chaski On April 19, 2024
Stalker





Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#9New Post! Oct 29, 2016 @ 22:49:40
@Conflict Said

I wouldn't be in that position because I would find a cause worth fighting for that didn't involve civil war.



Oh come now @Conflict, you cannot control what "position" you might be facing in the future.

I wasn't actually referring to civil war. My questions was about war in general. The odds are that a war, some war, will impact you before you die. You will most likely be faced with the decision, even if only privately and personally, to either "agree with" the war or "not agree with the" the war.

Pick one from history for the sake of discussion...one of the world wars, vietnam, iraq...any one will do...now ponder it as though you think the war wrong, unjust, bad, etc...something that you do not "agree with".

Now, for the sake of discussion, what would it take for you to volunteer to go to that war that you didn't agree with?

Everyone has a price...when it comes to war, what would be your price?

Many writers, poets, artists went to the Spanish Civil war...either for honor, cause, or perhaps ideas to write about...

Ernest Hemingway volunteered to serve in Italy as an ambulance driver during the First World War...not because he "agreed" with the war, but because of a sense of duty or perhaps humanity...

So, how about you...?
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