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The big lie that always follows mass shootings by white males

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Cman1989 On October 14, 2015




grimsby, United Kingdom
#46New Post! Oct 11, 2015 @ 17:06:56
The fact is tht guns should be banned over there. If theres no guns theres no need to have a gun to protect against others with guns!we dont have guns and there next to no gun violence ever!
chaski On about 16 hours ago
Stalker





Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#47New Post! Oct 11, 2015 @ 17:54:32
@alk1975 Said

Psychosis has a specific definition.



Yes it does.
chaski On about 16 hours ago
Stalker





Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#48New Post! Oct 11, 2015 @ 18:01:17
@alk1975 Said

feeling like I'm not going to be ale to speak in a way that you will hear,



You haven't said much on topic to "hear".

I don't expect you at agree with my opinion that people who commit murder are typically one of the following....

1. Mentally ill people.
2. People that are "temporarily" mentally ill.
3. Religious extremists, who are also mentally ill.
4. Political extremists, some of whom are also mentally ill.
5. People motivated by organized crime...who are probably, ultimately, mentally ill.


...but you seem to be going off on tangents that are barely on topic and certainly not convincing.

It is up to you to present YOUR opinion in a manner that might be worth "hearing"...it is not up to me to just believe whatever your opinion is because you work in the mental health field.
alk1975 On August 11, 2016




Jackson, Missouri
#49New Post! Oct 11, 2015 @ 18:41:24
You didn't hear the simple things, like saying extreme anger is to mental illness as cyst is to cancer or sugar overload is to diabetes. Instead you asked me how either a cyst or cancer was related to sugar overload or diabetes and what that has to do with mental illness. You don't understand the comparisons I made. I did say something on the topic. I said you are making a huge leap, a giant stretch that doesn't conform to actual definitions.
alk1975 On August 11, 2016




Jackson, Missouri
#50New Post! Oct 11, 2015 @ 18:49:57
@chaski Said

Yes it does.


The snippet you gave was severely shortened. A brief psychotic disorder is when a person is so impaired that the cannot distinguish reality. It involves delusions or hallucinations or disorganized speech. Something more than an episode of passion. It also lasts in duration a minimum of a day. The crimes of passion you are describing or the extreme moments of rage do not last a full day. They do not qualify as mentally ill. Further, just because something is intense and unpleasurable does not make it abnormal or pathological. It would be normal to experience incredible rage in certain instances, and yet does not excuse causing harm to others as a response. So no, a person does not have to be mentally ill to commit a violent crime. Thinking that way is a protective means of distinguishing us from them or explaining behavior that is hard to understand.
chaski On about 16 hours ago
Stalker





Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#51New Post! Oct 11, 2015 @ 19:39:49
@alk1975 Said

The snippet you gave was severely shortened..



You completely missed the point, which was that it is a mental disorder that is "temporary"....not some legal term, but rather a real mental disorder.

@alk1975 Said

The crimes of passion you are describing or the extreme moments of rage do not last a full day.


I don't actually remember describing any specific "crime of passion"...even though they are in fact also "temporary" and not normals states of mind.
alk1975 On August 11, 2016




Jackson, Missouri
#52New Post! Oct 11, 2015 @ 21:59:27
@chaski Said

You completely missed the point, which was that it is a mental disorder that is "temporary"....not some legal term, but rather a real mental disorder.



I don't actually remember describing any specific "crime of passion"...even though they are in fact also "temporary" and not normals states of mind.


And I don't actually remember saying insanity or mental illness can't be temporary so once again you missed the point. The debate isn't whether or a mental illness can be temporary. The original question I asked you was what mental illness would you diagnose in the types of crime you listed. You said brief psychotic disorder, and I'm telling you why it doesn't meet the criteria for that diagnosis. You asked me in what case a violent crime could be committed and mental illness not be at the core. One of the answers I gave was a crime of passion. A crime of passion does not meet the criteria for diagnosis as a brief psychotic disorder because it is not long enough in duration and doesn't present with the necessary symptomology. I also never said that temporary was a legal term. I said insanity was. It us used as a legal defense, but you will not find it in the dsm or icd, the two manuals that outline criteria for diagnosing disorders.
white_swan53 On October 07, 2020




n/a, New Mexico
#53New Post! Oct 11, 2015 @ 22:07:44
@Cman1989 Said

The fact is tht guns should be banned over there. If theres no guns theres no need to have a gun to protect against others with guns!we dont have guns and there next to no gun violence ever!





This thread isn't about banning guns or gun control laws. There are several of those type threads .
chaski On about 16 hours ago
Stalker





Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#54New Post! Oct 11, 2015 @ 22:47:54
@alk1975 Said

And I don't actually remember saying insanity or mental illness can't be temporary so once again you missed the point. The debate isn't whether or a mental illness can be temporary. The original question I asked you was what mental illness would you diagnose in the types of crime you listed. You said brief psychotic disorder, and I'm telling you why it doesn't meet the criteria for that diagnosis. You asked me in what case a violent crime could be committed and mental illness not be at the core. One of the answers I gave was a crime of passion. A crime of passion does not meet the criteria for diagnosis as a brief psychotic disorder because it is not long enough in duration and doesn't present with the necessary symptomology. I also never said that temporary was a legal term. I said insanity was. It us used as a legal defense, but you will not find it in the dsm or icd, the two manuals that outline criteria for diagnosing disorders.



I'm just going to defer to your mental health professional expertise....clearly there is nothing mentally abnormal about people murdering other people.
alk1975 On August 11, 2016




Jackson, Missouri
#55New Post! Oct 11, 2015 @ 22:54:08
@chaski Said

I'm just going to defer to your mental health professional expertise....clearly there is nothing mentally abnormal about people murdering other people.



You are twisting words.
chaski On about 16 hours ago
Stalker





Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#56New Post! Oct 11, 2015 @ 23:35:27
@alk1975 Said

You are twisting words.



Not really. Just taking your words at face value as presented.
alk1975 On August 11, 2016




Jackson, Missouri
#57New Post! Oct 11, 2015 @ 23:50:29
@chaski Said

Not really. Just taking your words at face value as presented.



Really? Then please quote where I said that killing people isn't abnormal. You seem to be equating the act with the sanity. I'm saying they are not the same. The act can be quite abnormal and the person's ability to distinguish reality, a person's emotional response to a trauma, etc, quite normal.

For example, if I walked in on someone raping my daughter. It would be a normal response for me to want to kill them. It meets your criteria about an altered mood state due to a stressor. It does not meet the criteria for diagnosis as a mental health issue. If in fact I chose to act on that urge to kill, then I would face a trial. They would determine whether I was guilty or not guilty. Am I "sane" if I'm found not guilty by reason of defending a loved one, but "insane" if I'm found guilty? My mental state at the time of the act was the same. There are any number of factors that might have affected the outcome of the judgement, but not my mental state at the time.

On the other hand, if I plead not guilty due to temporary insanity, then I have to prove that I was in fact "insane" at the moment of the crime. How then does one do that? If we follow your logic, then it is automatically assumed that because I was committing murder at the time, I must have been insane, therefore "not guilty".
chaski On about 16 hours ago
Stalker





Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#58New Post! Oct 12, 2015 @ 00:02:16
@alk1975 Said

Really? Then please quote where I said that killing people isn't abnormal. You seem to be equating the act with the sanity. I'm saying they are not the same. The act can be quite abnormal and the person's ability to distinguish reality, a person's emotional response to a trauma, etc, quite normal.

For example, if I walked in on someone raping my daughter. It would be a normal response for me to want to kill them. It meets your criteria about an altered mood state due to a stressor. It does not meet the criteria for diagnosis as a mental health issue. If in fact I chose to act on that urge to kill, then I would face a trial. They would determine whether I was guilty or not guilty. Am I "sane" if I'm found not guilty by reason of defending a loved one, but "insane" if I'm found guilty? My mental state at the time of the act was the same. There are any number of factors that might have affected the outcome of the judgement, but not my mental state at the time.

On the other hand, if I plead not guilty due to temporary insanity, then I have to prove that I was in fact "insane" at the moment of the crime. How then does one do that? If we follow your logic, then it is automatically assumed that because I was committing murder at the time, I must have been insane, therefore "not guilty".



This entire conversation I've basically been saying that murdering people is mentally abnormal, you have been playing the word game and arguing that it is or is not "legal temporary insanity" or mental health "temporary insanity" and not related to mental health diagnosis....I gather apparently not a mental health issues from your posts.

You are obsessed with your concept of legal insanity and your professional health care professional knowledge.

My part of this conversation has NEVER been about someone going to court and pleading "temporary insanity", I really can't figure out why you are obsessing on that idea.

In any case, as I said, I differ to your legal and health care expertise....I stand corrected, murdering people is not mentally abnormal either from a long term or short term perspective... I got it.
backdoor 3 minutes ago




Richmond, Canada
#59New Post! Oct 14, 2015 @ 07:04:32
Some are taking orders to make an incident or incidents to press for changes in gun law etc.

Let blame it on mental illness. Before the incident, this person is not with mental sickness. Mental illness is an excuse to lesser punishments.
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