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Fueling the Jihad against America

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volkov On June 08, 2005




Little Rock, Arkansas
#76New Post! May 26, 2004 @ 18:46:40
Saladin, can I just ask you a question...I understand what you are saying, and it is good to hear a voice in opposition of these terrorists..


But, do you believe that the terrorists that attacke us on 9/11 are in paradise for sacfricing themselves as martyers for the faith?
jeoin On November 12, 2004




#77New Post! May 26, 2004 @ 19:04:23
I don't think Saladin agrees with their tactics, nor that these men will receive paradise.
volkov On June 08, 2005




Little Rock, Arkansas
#78New Post! May 26, 2004 @ 19:32:20
I would just like to know what form of Islam teaches that martyers that kill people will go to paradise, Saladin...
saladin On November 18, 2004




#79New Post! May 26, 2004 @ 20:09:32
Do I believe they are in paradise? No. Although its quite a complicated subject, let me try to explain why.

In Islam, one who dies striving for JUSTICE goes to paradise. Now, if you look at people like OBL, are they striving for justice? Did Afghanistan have a just Islamic society following Islamic law? Of course not. Because you see women oppressed, you see drugs significantly being sold for AlQaedas economy, you see people getting thier hands cut off for minor crimes, you see people getting killed unjustly, this is not justice. What is fighting for justice? Fighting dictators could be one way. Did OBL ever thought of getting rid of Mubarak? or King Fahd? I mean if you think of yourself as being strong enough to fight the United States, then what's Saudi Arabia???

Now what did these 19 hijackers do? They killed 3,000 civilians who had nothing to do with thier situation. I would like to know, how is this striving for justice? How is beheading a defenseless human being in such barbaric ways justice?


Quote:
I would just like to know what form of Islam teaches that martyers that kill people will go to paradise, Saladin...


None. Although you could say Wahabism, but it supposedly also follows the Sunnah(Prophet Muhammad's sayings and doings). Wahabists are extremists. Fortunately, they are losing followers by the day. But they have been spreading thier form of Islam worldwide with the help of thier saudi oil income. They build mosques in many parts of the world. In Bosnia for example, Muslims pray in thier mosques but don't approve of thier Wahabists policies. The Imams, although threatened, are speaking out against them.(this has hardly had an effect)

It all really depends on what you view as just. These extremists view thier doings as just. Many modern Islamic scholars have denounced thier actions. Did you know that Iran, for example, had moments of silence during events such as soccer matches for the victims of 9/11? Did you know that the most prominent Islamic scholar, Yusef Al-Qaradawi, said "?those people (extremists) hurt Islam and Muslims with the wrong behavior they do; as the threat they pose to Islam is much more than that of the enemies of Islam who fight it tooth and nail, both in darkness and broad daylight.? But denouncing them isn't enough. Muslims in the Arab world need to unite and remove the dictators before they can remove such extremists. If there is one thing that Arabs lack in the Middle East, it is organization.

You could say what OBL did to the soviet communists was actual Jihad. If he had died, he would have gone to paradise. He was a true Muslim hero back then. But now, after all the attacks this past decade, he's just another wahabist.

I hope this makes it clear.
volkov On June 08, 2005




Little Rock, Arkansas
#80New Post! May 26, 2004 @ 21:37:13
Thank you...


I appreciate the information..

jeoin On November 12, 2004




#81New Post! May 30, 2004 @ 01:48:11
I am sorry if I sound upset, i just think this is a serious issue. OBL was never a hero. Was mohammed a fighter?
saladin On November 18, 2004




#82New Post! May 30, 2004 @ 03:43:11
Quote:
I appreciate the information..

My pleasure. I understand that such a point of view isn't widely brought out from Muslims. But there are numerous reasons for that. One is because they are threatened(espicially those living within the middle east), another could be lack of organization. Also keep in mind that the elites (who tend to be extremists) are the ones recieving attention. But I have some good news. Finally, a large group of Muslims in the U.S have joined to start an anti-terror campaign. You can read more about it here: https://www.islamonline.net/English/News/2004-05/29/article05.shtml

Quote:
OBL was never a hero.


He was considered a real hero during the time when he successfully fought the soviet communists out of afghanistan. But there is nothing heroic about the bombings of the last decade.

Quote:
Was mohammed a fighter?


I'm assuming you're referring to Prophet Muhammad? If there was one word you can use to describe Muhammad, it would have to be reformer(in my point of view). Although he, like Moses, had power over people, he never used this power for his own gain. If you'de like to read more on what he did during his lifetime, I would strongly recommend Martin Lings' book called "Muhammad: His Life Based on the Earliest Sources". It is also available at the UALR library.
jeoin On November 12, 2004




#83New Post! May 30, 2004 @ 21:07:06
where does the word infidel come from?
saladin On November 18, 2004




#84New Post! May 30, 2004 @ 23:37:43
I actually used to think it was an arabic word for unbelievers who opposed Islam. (im not a fluent arabic speaker by the way) But while I was doing my research on Jihad, I found out that the term infidel is actually used by Christians. According to my webster dictionary, the definition of an infidel is:

1. one who is not a Christian or who opposes Christianity
2. an unbeliever with respect to a particular religion

The arabic word for infidel is "kafer".

Where did the word originate from? I don't know.
panetti On February 17, 2005




Little Rock, Arkansas
#85New Post! Jun 20, 2004 @ 15:46:36
So the Russian President has come out saying "Yep, they knew there was a connection between Al Queda and Iraq, because WE told them!"

So it's seems our justification has been confirmed. Mind you, this does not connect Iraq to 9/11 per se, but does confirm they were plotting terrorist activity in the US, meaning we were justified in stopping them.

What do you think?
jeoin On November 12, 2004




#86New Post! Jun 20, 2004 @ 16:56:56
I believe you have misunderstood what Putin said.
Quote:

Putin said Russian intelligence had been told on several occasions that Saddam's special forces were preparing to attack U.S. targets inside and outside the United States.


"After the events of September 11, 2001, and before the start of the military operation in Iraq, Russian special services several times received information that the official services of the Saddam regime were preparing 'terrorist acts' on the United States and beyond its borders," he told reporters.


"This information was passed on to our American colleagues," he said. He added, however, that Russian intelligence had no proof that Saddam's agents had been involved in any particular attack.

Quote:

"Our position has not changed. We indeed passed this information on to our American partners but we consider that there are rules, defined by international law, for using force in international affairs and these procedures were not observed," he said


So he said Saddam was planning attacks on US. This is no surprise. We all knew that. Hell he targeted former president Bush. No news there.
Especially since Russia could not provide any type of actionable Items and since Russia and Iraq had a relationship.
No where did he say that AL Queda and Iraq were affiliated.

Timothy McVie planned attacks inside the US and he was not related to Al Queda.

Bush continues to say that they were related, but he is in a sinking ship. He has no proof. He keeps saying that part of his proof is The ongoing attacks lead by that guy in Iraq now. That is flimsy proof. A terrorist being there now, does not imply relations to Saddam.
IT also flys in the face of what the 911 commission stated. They found no proof of any connection.

https://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=574&e=7&u=/nm/russia_us_iraq_dc
jeoin On November 12, 2004




#87New Post! Jun 20, 2004 @ 17:29:32
Quote:
Abdulaziz al-Moqrin called Johnson "an infidel, a warrior of the military." Johnson, who had worked on Apache helicopters for Lockheed Martin in Saudi Arabia, "works for military aviation and he belongs to the American army, which kills, tortures and harms Muslims everywhere,


If this is the logic that Al Qeada uses, it is stupid.

This is a dangerous thing to say. It makes not only Al Qeada a target but all those that follow the same religion. These words not only bring into the frey every american civilian, but also all muslims in the world. When will the muslim people start making a concerted effort to stop these guys. Why do I have to watch Iraqs civilians chanting anti-american slogans when a suicide bomber attacks Iraq? How is it that the very day Saudi Arabi recieves very real/justifiable opionions of their efforts, they just happen to kill the leader of Al Qeada in their country? It is very obvious that more can be done. Muslims very faith is being attacked from within, Not just america. The peaceful message of Muslim prophets is falling to the wayside path of the current rhetoric of Bin Laden.
Actions speak louder than words.
volkov On June 08, 2005




Little Rock, Arkansas
#88New Post! Jun 22, 2004 @ 00:14:19
Quote:
Quote:
Abdulaziz al-Moqrin called Johnson "an infidel, a warrior of the military." Johnson, who had worked on Apache helicopters for Lockheed Martin in Saudi Arabia, "works for military aviation and he belongs to the American army, which kills, tortures and harms Muslims everywhere,


If this is the logic that Al Qeada uses, it is stupid.

This is a dangerous thing to say. It makes not only Al Qeada a target but all those that follow the same religion. These words not only bring into the frey every american civilian, but also all muslims in the world. When will the muslim people start making a concerted effort to stop these guys. Why do I have to watch Iraqs civilians chanting anti-american slogans when a suicide bomber attacks Iraq? How is it that the very day Saudi Arabi recieves very real/justifiable opionions of their efforts, they just happen to kill the leader of Al Qeada in their country? It is very obvious that more can be done. Muslims very faith is being attacked from within, Not just america. The peaceful message of Muslim prophets is falling to the wayside path of the current rhetoric of Bin Laden.
Actions speak louder than words.


Great points Jeoin...I am glad you feel that way...More DOES need to be done in Islam...it should have been done a long time ago....These terror attacks have gone on long enough and there is just a minority of groups in the Islamic faith taking action against these murderers using Islam as their foothold.....

It should be the majority of the faith taking charge hear and joining us in this effort to root out terrorism...If they are so adament about rooting out these terrorist, more should be helping us and on our side against these radical fundamentalists...the fact that so many are not says enough...
saladin On November 18, 2004




#89New Post! Jun 22, 2004 @ 23:17:01
Quote:
When will the muslim people start making a concerted effort to stop these guys.


As soon as they have power. Remember that a significant majority of Muslims live under some form of dictatorship. Acquiring power is thier first objective cause what could they possibly do without it? Don't underestimate the dictators either. They've used every method to shut down anything that comes even close to threatrening thier seat in office.

As for achieving power, could be it possible that Muslims in the near future might hold some position in legeslative or executive branch and from there finally remove the oppression and dictatorship from the Middle East and at the same time gain the trust of the millions of Arabs?

One thing lacking is trust right now. Arabs don't view the liberation of the U.S any different from the British who promised them "liberation" after the collapse of the Ottoman Empire. They feel they will be betrayed again. I'm sure you know the saying, "fool me once, shame on you. fool me twice, shame on me".

"IF" after June 30th, the Iraqi government satisfies the Iraqi people...then I believe there will be a significant change in the views of Arabs towards the United States.

Also do not forget that the Arabs living in Saudi Arabia are hearing Bush talk about freedom and anti-dictatorship, and yet at the same time, he is holding strong ties with the Saudis....this is why there is so much distrust.

It's a pretty strange situation when you have both sides misunderstanding each other......
panetti On February 17, 2005




Little Rock, Arkansas
#90New Post! Jun 23, 2004 @ 00:49:36
Indeed, I imagine that is.
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