What does the Republican Party stand for?

Leon

San Diego, California

#16

Dec 13, 2020 @ 04:48:34

@4d4m Said

True, Fascism is nationalism gone wrong. It's basically an oligarchy, fascism being a way to facilitate it. Socialism is just a little right of Communism which is the extreme left.

Rights of the State come first in Communism, and everyone in the society is a busy little bee serving the whole.

That's great and everything until you realize that

1) if our country were to become Communist ( or Socialist) today, the same people running our country now would be running it then.

2) What if you disagree with something? There is no room for dissent in Marxism.

3) a look at the Socialist nations around the world should deter any thinking human from pursuing it.

4) There is no inherent flexibility. It is an oligarchy. There's no way around that. Our system of government is far superior in that we can make changes happen. It takes people getting organized and working together, which isn't happening right now. But it could happen.

The initial intent of communism was a utopia, with the willing sharing of everything, and with zero need for government. Marx also proposed a “socialist state”, or temporary control by a centralized government, to help us get there. Lenin had this in mind.

Of course, this goal was an impossibility for multiple, obvious, reasons, so it never went beyond that, and instead deteriorated rapidly under Stalin.

What ended up was nothing that Marx envisioned of course, and instead demonstrated why utopias never manifest. Human nature simply does not allow for it.

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Leon

San Diego, California

#17

Dec 13, 2020 @ 04:52:45

@4d4m Said

How is Facism more rights of the individual vs the state? The far right is Anarchism, the total lack of government. Must have been using a different text book. Consider the fascists; Nazi's, Mussolini, Franco. were all socialists.

I’m just telling you that that is what was in the textbooks. Look up linear political spectrum and it is all over the place.

You are forgetting that Communism and communism are two different things. That’s how it was explained to me. The latter was anarchistic in its purest philosophical form. Today, nobody thinks of the latter, though, just the former, due to the way the USSR bungled it up it in real life.

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Edited: December 13, 2020 @ 04:55

4d4m

4dforum.org,

#18

Dec 13, 2020 @ 04:56:21

I submit Karl Marx never intended communism to be anything more than Stalin made it. His "utopia" was crap for the masses. A way to talk people into going to hell in such a way they thought it was their idea in the first place. The idea is they can wipe out history (including religious history) take over in such a way people think they won, and continue ruling as tyrants like they always have. Once all information is coming from the state nothing would matter.

In a documentary I watched on PBS about the Hong Kong protests, one student was told about and watched a documentary on the Tienamen Square Massacre. They showed him after he watched it, he had been raised in mainland China and had never heard of it

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4d4m

4dforum.org,

#19

Dec 13, 2020 @ 04:59:49

@Leon Said

I’m just telling you that that is what was in the textbooks. Look up linear political spectrum and it is all over the place.

You are forgetting that Communism and communism are two different things. That’s how it was explained to me. The latter was anarchistic in its purest philosophical form. Today, nobody thinks of the latter, though, just the former, due to the way the USSR bungled it up it in real life.

I'm actually finding this very interesting. I don't think we are the same age because that is not the way I was taught. I've seen some other interesting examples of how education has been altered to sort of "cleanse" socialism of the fascists that championed it. What text book did that come from if you have access to that information.

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chaski

Stalker

Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,

#20

Dec 13, 2020 @ 05:01:00

@4d4m Said

I submit Karl Marx never intended communism to be anything more than Stalin made it.

That

is a nonsensical sentence.

Do you even pay attention to what you write?

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4d4m

4dforum.org,

#21

Dec 13, 2020 @ 05:03:55

Just because you didn't understand it, doesn't mean it doesn't make sense.

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Leon

San Diego, California

#22

Dec 13, 2020 @ 05:06:25

@4d4m Said

I'm actually finding this very interesting. I don't think we are the same age because that is not the way I was taught. I've seen some other interesting examples of how education has been altered to sort of "cleanse" socialism of the fascists that championed it. What text book did that come from if you have access to that information.

18-20 is when I was taught it. Both in high school and in college, from what I remember. This was in the late 80s and early 90s for me. I’m 51. Don’t remember the textbooks, sorry, but again, Google “linear political spectrum”. It’s all over. It’s where I got the image. So take your pick, as far as the source.

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Edited: December 13, 2020 @ 05:10

chaski

Stalker

Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,

#23

Dec 13, 2020 @ 05:07:59

@4d4m Said

Just because you didn't understand it, doesn't mean it doesn't make sense.

Just because you wrote it doesn't mean it makes sense.

It is utterly idiotic.

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Leon

San Diego, California

#24

Dec 13, 2020 @ 05:09:10

At any rate, something like this might be more accurate. Although I’m sure people may have problems with it, I at least like it better than the linear one

1

chaski

Stalker

Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,

#25

Dec 13, 2020 @ 05:10:28

@4d4m Said

I've seen some other interesting examples of how education has been altered to sort of "cleanse" socialism of the fascists that championed it.

Another idiotic statement.

Fascism is not and never was the same thing as socialism.

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4d4m

4dforum.org,

#26

Dec 13, 2020 @ 05:12:20

Ok then we are about the same age. My spectrum is from Philosophy coursework. Communism and socialism are actually forms of economics, not government strictly speaking. Marx however continued on and made his a form of government as well. One party rule which is basically a sham democracy designed to fool the public into thinking they have some sort of political free will. It took from 1917 to 1989 for people to figure out that was bs and affect a change.

Original socialism dates back to the third century BCE and was utilized by some king in what is now India. It gave him complete control of the economy. We are all aware that economics was one of the key factors in the disintegration of Empires in Europe.

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chaski

Stalker

Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,

#27

Dec 13, 2020 @ 05:14:36

@Leon Said

At any rate, something like this might be more accurate. Although I’m sure people may have problems with it, I at least like it better than the linear one

I'm not sure that I would put Obama farther to the right than Russia, but mostly that representation is correct.

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4d4m

4dforum.org,

#28

Dec 13, 2020 @ 05:17:38

@chaski Said

Another idiotic statement.

Fascism is not and never was the same thing as socialism.

My statement did not say they were. Fascists, Mussolini, Hitler and Franco, all had socialist economic systems. It gave them complete economic control to build, supply and maintain their armies.

The Fascists all championed socialism.

0

chaski

Stalker

Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,

#29

Dec 13, 2020 @ 05:17:44

@4d4m Said

....which is basically a sham democracy designed to fool the public into thinking they have some sort of political free will...

So far on TFS you have basically said this

about all forms of government as well as all forms of religion.

You are pretty much a one trick pony.

0

chaski

Stalker

Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,

#30

Dec 13, 2020 @ 05:20:20

@4d4m Said

Fascists, Mussolini, Hitler and Franco, all had socialist economic systems.

No.

They had some socialist programs within their government structures.

Their forms of government were not socialism, and their economies were not socialism either.

If you want to make sweeping statements based on limited programs within a government, then the USA is a socialist state.

Side note: Hitler's economic system was, per his own words and actions, a war time economy. He hated socialism. don't believe me... read MEIN KAMPF and then follow up with THE RISE AND FALL OF THE THIRD REICH... just as starting points for your self edification.

0

Edited: December 13, 2020 @ 05:29

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