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dookie On December 16, 2023
Foolish Bombu





, United Kingdom
#841New Post! Nov 17, 2020 @ 08:51:29
May be wrong but I get an inkling that the Withdrawal Bill (Amendments to) may eventually be scrapped. The Lords (bless their little cotton socks - and I hope they still get their £300 a day expenses for having a kip on the red seats) have voted down the nasty bits that break International Law. Will the Commons now vote to put them back in? Or not?

Methinks just maybe.......not. Various reasons. The cummings and goings at what some call "the top", the need for some eU Trade Deal and the current EU lack of trust in the UK keeping to its promises, the Joe Biden victory and its possible effect on any US/UK Trade Deal.

The only argument against is that it would be the sensible thing to do and we are talking here about Boris Johnson.
dookie On December 16, 2023
Foolish Bombu





, United Kingdom
#842New Post! Nov 17, 2020 @ 20:48:32
A new Poll shows that 60% of British people now have a "positive" opinion of the EU, the highest ever.

Just as we now approach leaving it (with the latest advice being given to schools to stockpile non-perishable food items and police chiefs warn of "damage" to their crime fighting capabilities)

Tragic.
dookie On December 16, 2023
Foolish Bombu





, United Kingdom
#843New Post! Nov 17, 2020 @ 20:55:07
And there is more....



Support for Brexit at an all time low
dookie On December 16, 2023
Foolish Bombu





, United Kingdom
#844New Post! Nov 18, 2020 @ 09:05:57
Good article....

HERE
dookie On December 16, 2023
Foolish Bombu





, United Kingdom
#845New Post! Nov 18, 2020 @ 10:29:43
Lord Cardigan aka Boris Johnson prepares the UK for its charge into the Valley of Death. We all know that it is the wrong valley but hey, look at the heroism!

As 60% of people in the UK now look upon the EU positively, as now only 39% think Brexit is a good idea, we are about to LEAVE! Global Britain calls. On 31/12/20 our new visa requirements come into force (yes, as we become more Global we make it more difficult to come here) and so the thousands upon thousands of vacancies in our NHS will become almost impossible to fill. This is known as "taking back control" by Brexiters. Money can flow freely, but for human beings there must needs be restrictions.

The Lorry Parks are ready and certificates are now required to enter Kent, from the UK side! The 50,000 new pen pushers have pens in hand (thank goodness we can now say goodbye to the Brussels bureaucrats) to deal with the extra paperwork deal or no deal.

And the man who initiated the madness, Dave Cameron, remains I presume in his new garden shed, having written his memoirs (which can now be picked up cheap as remainders at all poor bookshops)

And as for the Tories, his Party, the cause of the madness? In power with an 80 seat majority, gained by the soundbites and electioneering slogans of "Getting Brexit Done" and an "Oven Ready Deal" (now in the process of being torn up breaking International Law to do it)

Is there no justice in our world?

Just once, truly, really, I would like just one person who voted Leave to 1. Tell me what we have gained. 2. Admit that "sovrinty" was far from their minds and that actually they don't like "foriners" or having "the Germans" telling us "wot to do" after beating them twice in the war. 3. Just admit... "I was wrong".

Signed....Remoaner in Chief, Dookie.
shadowen On March 22, 2024




Bunyip Bend, Australia
#846New Post! Nov 19, 2020 @ 05:31:05
Well either a pussy whipped BJ will sell out those who voted him into power last year or the UK will reject the extraordinary demands of the EU and trade with the bloc under WTO terms. In light of events over the past week or so i think a BJ sell out is the most likely outcome.
shadowen On March 22, 2024




Bunyip Bend, Australia
#847New Post! Nov 19, 2020 @ 05:33:35
Interesting to listen to MB say how the EU acknowledge that the UK is an independent island state with every right to control their EEZ whilst in the very same breath demanding that the UK hand over control of their fisheries to a foreign body, aka the EU. A very strange idea as to what the word 'independent' means.
dookie On December 16, 2023
Foolish Bombu





, United Kingdom
#848New Post! Nov 19, 2020 @ 08:01:05
@shadowen Said

Well either a pussy whipped BJ will sell out those who voted him into power last year or the UK will reject the extraordinary demands of the EU and trade with the bloc under WTO terms. In light of events over the past week or so i think a BJ sell out is the most likely outcome.



Hi. Thanks for your concern with British "independence" while apparently living down under in Oz.

I am aware of the extraordinary demands of the UK in the current Trade Talks.

1. Asking for the same terms as Norway, who actually pay in substantial amounts to the EU (via the EEA) and have agreed to comply with about 22% of EU regulations and directives. (The UK has refused to pay a penny and to be totally free of following any directives)

2. As far as Level Playing Fields, which are required to stop unfair competition, the UK has asked to be "trusted" to comply and not seek undermine any such "field". Given that the UK is unilaterally discarding some of the terms of the last Deal we signed with the EU, our call to be "trusted" seems to me quite extraordinary

(I was unaware that Larry was whipping Mr Johnson. That may explain the state of his hair)
dookie On December 16, 2023
Foolish Bombu





, United Kingdom
#849New Post! Nov 19, 2020 @ 08:53:26
@shadowen Said

Interesting to listen to MB say how the EU acknowledge that the UK is an independent island state with every right to control their EEZ whilst in the very same breath demanding that the UK hand over control of their fisheries to a foreign body, aka the EU. A very strange idea as to what the word 'independent' means.



In effect, at least as I see it, there is no actual "independence", at least in the real world. Emotive words can be used to beguile the gullible and get them waving the Union Jack (or, more suitably, the Cross of St George) but we live in a mutually interdependent world where co-operation and respect for each other needs to play the main part. As Winston Churchill said, national sovereignty is not inviolable and may need to be surrendered in part if done for a greater good.

Fishing is an emotive issue and seems to have a shadow across the Trade Negotiations far deeper than its economic worth. Which I can understand, given the virtual death of some of the UK's traditional fishing ports. But, as I see it, we must needs look at the case of the Passenger Pigeon in the USA and their extinction. Once those birds darkened the sky in huge flocks. Unbridled economic driven capture brought extinction. The fact is that Cod - and other varieties of fish - were being overfished. Quotas had to be enforced to prevent virtual extinction. That is the bottom line. Exactly who fishes where is secondary. What are "our" fish? Given the need to preserve and maintain stocks? Cod spawn on the German coast, they have - unlike humans - freedom of movement.

It also has to be mentioned that currently UK fishermen have access to EU waters - it is not one way traffic. (Again, some current UK quotas have in fact been sold off to other EU countries)
dookie On December 16, 2023
Foolish Bombu





, United Kingdom
#850New Post! Nov 19, 2020 @ 10:08:03
@shadowen Said

BJ will sell out those who voted him into power last year



Much to say about this as I sit upon a park bench with a coffee, yearning for that glorious moment when the cafes open once again and I can relax with a round of toast or a bacon butty

I must leave aside the reality of the UK's antiquated electoral system (FPTP) where 34% of the total electorate give one party an 80 seat "landslide".

But in exactly what sense are those 34% being "sold out"? What in fact did they vote for? A "hard" or a "soft" Brexit? Watching the actual election campaign closely I can report that Boris Johnson (when not ducking into the nearest fridge to avoid reporters) consistently spoke of his "oven ready deal". Given that he has now discarded some of it I would suggest that BJ has already sold many out no matter what form of Brexit they envisaged.

Of course the majority of the electorate, who voted for Parties offering fresh negotiations with the EU and/or a chance for our democracy to vote again on its terms (with the option to Remain) have already been "sold out" in a certain sense. Given that 60% now look upon the EU positively and just 39% now think Brexit is a "good idea" perhaps some sort of "sell-out" would keep the majority happy!

But there you go. I wonder what our very own "man of the people" Nigel Farage thinks of it all? Has he in fact got time to think while spending some of his £70,000 EU Pension while pleading poverty?
dookie On December 16, 2023
Foolish Bombu





, United Kingdom
#851New Post! Nov 19, 2020 @ 11:35:41
While in full flow.......like it or not.......a further word.


It seems that (well over four years ago now) a section of the total electorate gained a totally unexpected victory. To Leave the EU.

Now, like a dog with a bone, many are totally unwilling to let go. They demand their pound of flesh. It's "democracy".

Such demand, feel entitled to, a "hard brexit"......"Leave MEANS leave".

No matter that much of the Referendum Campaign seemed to offer and speak of various shades of "leaving", with a Trade Deal being virtually assumed, even promised, even being deemed "easy" to negotiate.......the "easiest in history".

But then came, as said, unexpected victory and the mantra Leave MEANS leave" first began to do the rounds.

No matter how many lies were told (yes, by all sides) during the Campaign, no matter how much pure mis-information, no matter that Leave were eventually found guilty by the courts of breaking electoral rules specifically designed to "ensure fair elections".

No, the hard core of the Leavers, now orchestrated by Nigel Farage and the Tory "little englanders", were determined to keep their unexpected bone.

To argue for a deeper concept of democracy, one not restricted simply to insisting that one Referendum result MUST be implemented irrespective of all else, was to be accused (as I well know) of "blather". And more, cries of "suck it up loser" or "get over it, you lost".

One thing finally. The great unmentionable. We British are polite people. It was shown that demographically, on average, the higher the educational level of someone the more likely they were to have voted to Remain in the EU.

And so, as many of our most ardent supporters of a "hard" Brexit also go on about "we are too PC these days" and advocate "free speech" and love Boris when he calls others of other cultures "piccannies with water melon smiles" or that they look like "letterboxes", and cracks jokes about dead bodies in Libya, I'll deal out some non PC language and speak freely........a lot of Leave voters were/are as thick as s**t.
Jennifer1984 On July 20, 2022
Returner and proud





Penzance, United Kingdom
#852New Post! Nov 20, 2020 @ 22:03:51
I think you've nailed just about all there is to nail on this one, Dooks.

Even the very idea of Brexit was flawed since the very first day it was proposed.... even before a referendum was called. It didn't take much more than asking yourself a few questions and then looking up the answers to see that. You only had to look at an atlas to see the situation in Northern Ireland was going to be an insurmountable problem if Britain attempted to fulfil the clear intentions behind the promises of an easy, frictionless transition.

The thing that has always grated with me, is the persistence that, as one prediction after another has come to fruition, is that the determined Brexiter still clings doggedly to the referendum campaign line that everything is going to be fine.... nothing can possibly go wrong..... it will all be right on the night..... when clearly no such thing is the case.

Large swathes of the Kent countryside have disappeared under concrete to build lorry parks and - literally - thousands of those horrible, tardis-like portaloos are being shipped in to service tens of thousands of lorry drivers who are going to be stranded on them, often for days at a time. Queues of stationary trucks, often exceeding ten miles are likely to build up outside Dover. the port of Felixstowe is already unable to deal with the container traffic and some vessels are waiting up to ten days to get a berth alongside.

And yet...... the Brexiter will deny that any of this is actually happening, or worse, will tell you that it's a minor irritation that doesn't really matter.

The tunnel visioned denial is staggering and yet.... it persists because the Daily Express or the Daily Mail plays it down as "a little local teething trouble that will clear up when Britain's "World Beating" technology kicks into gear smoothly and efficiently on 1 January"...... only we know it won't because the techies who still haven't created the system, let alone installed, tested and passed it ready to go live say it won't.

And The Sun and the Telegraph airily wave this information aside and divert attention instead at Jeremy Corbyn being given the party whip back. Dead Cats by the dozen on the table.

The apologists for Brexit still hold the country in their thrall and I don't know when the penny will finally drop with the majority of people in this country. The only thing that is certain is that when it finally does, it will be too late.
Jennifer1984 On July 20, 2022
Returner and proud





Penzance, United Kingdom
#853New Post! Nov 20, 2020 @ 22:19:43
So……. What specific excuses do the Brexiters hide behind, then? Again, we remember the promises made during the referendum campaign: We all know the “Land of Unicorns and Rainbows” that was promised. The EU would roll over and give us a “Cake And Eat It” deal, all the foreigners would be shoved over the white cliffs of Dover at the point of a pitchfork and the NHS would be rolling in cash.

But of course, none of those things were ever going to happen. Leave campaign knew this from the very start, but enough people swallowed their lies to get them their 52% and that was what really mattered to them…… was the ONLY thing that mattered to them.

Since Johnson became PM, their message has changed in a very fundamental way. The message now is about finding a way to de-couple the VOTE to leave the EU from the CONSEQUENCES of leaving and this is being done in six distinct ways.


IT’S TOO LATE NOW

Pretty simple, this one. “The vote’s been held and we’ve got to live with it so get with the programme.” In this narrative, all debate ended with the referendum. Pro Brexit journalist Julia Hartley tweeted in 2018, in response to a question on the lack of foreign investment since the vote: “Look mate, I really don’t care. This question was answered two years ago. Move on with your life.” A typical Brexiter statement.

But politics doesn’t work like that. Winning the vote was just the first – and easiest - part of a process which is going to have consequences for generations to come.


IT’S NOT UP TO US

This is the denial of responsibility. This says that those who led the Leave campaign have done their bit by simply delivering a majority to leave the EU and its up to everybody else now to make it work. But in a way, winning the vote was a disaster for Brexiters because it meant that they were now responsible for what happened next.

They were warned over and over of the consequences but insisted that those warnings were not only wrong, but were malevolent, EU motivated fear mongering so Leavers now claim that the current mess is all the Remainers fault and it is we who must now change our attitude. But this is a red herring. It is up to Leavers to make Brexit work, not Remainers who have always insisted that the whole thing would end badly.


IT HASN’T BEEN DONE PROPERLY


This argument tells us that there was nothing wrong with the decision… that all the faults lie with other people. Firstly, Leavers argue that they never specified how Brexit was to be undertaken in a way that doesn’t damage the UK economically, politically or strategically. However, every mis-step of the government has been as a result of pressure from, and cheered on by, “Brexit Ultras” like the Tories favourite panto toff, Jacob Rees-Mogg, and this includes the dogmatic “Red Lines”, the premature triggering of Article 50 and the subsequent premature calling of a General Election to (according to the Daily Mail) “Crush The Saboteurs.”

This narrative often happens in failed businesses where any and every failed management decision is defended by its advocates who claim it would have worked brilliantly if it wasn’t for “inadequate implementation.”

This takes us back to “It’s Not Up To Us” in that Brexiters claim victimhood at the hands of "the elite", refusing to accept that having won the referendum and having a government pursuing what they campaigned for, it’s not their fault because they’re not the ones implementing it.

And then, of course, we come to the inevitable……


IT’S ALL THE REMAINERS FAULT


Of course, everything would have been just fine and dandy if it wasn’t for all those dreadful Remoaners who are vacuously accused of sabotage, treachery and talking Brexit down.

Depending on the situation, the failure of Brexit is blamed on the Civil Service, the BBC, the CBI, the House of Lords but not, mysteriously, ex-Public Schoolboys, multi millionaires, Hedge Fund speculators, right-wing politicians, media moguls, and newspaper owners who support Brexit. Sometimes, the fault lies with each and every individual of the 48% who voted Remain. Wow..!!

But hold on a minute…… if Brexit had been the wonderful thing its proponents claimed, then it wouldn’t have mattered what the Remainers did or said, would it..?


IT’S ALL THE EU’S FAULT


This is the most dominant of the post referendum excuses made by Brexiters. They claim that the EU has decided to “punish” Britain for leaving. Such claims are nonsense since they ascribe to the EU the consequences of Britain leaving and as such are just another form of denial of responsibility.

For instance, Brexiters blame the EU for the Irish border crisis as something created by the EU rather than the ineluctable legal consequence of Britain leaving the single market and customs union.

The problem with the punishment narrative is that the Brexiters said during the referendum campaign that Britain “Holds all the cards” and that “The EU needs us more than we need them.” If those things were true then no punishment would have been possible. If it was wrong then Vote Leave did indeed know of the consequences embedded in the lie, consequences that they concealed from the public.


IT’S NOT ABOUT PRACTICAL CONSEQUENCES, IT’S ABOUT PHILOSOPHICAL PRINCIPLES


The last, desperate throw of the dice to give some justification for getting us into this mess, Brexiters claim a commitment to “sovereignty” in the abstract. This is the “Take Back Control” argument.

This enables them to argue that consequences don’t matter because the referendum was a philosophical vote. But rather than arguing that case on its own, instead they made arguments about immigration and NHS funding…. Arguments which would not have had to be made if they had a pure sovereignty agenda.

As the practical consequences of Brexit mount up and can no longer be dismissed as Project Fear, Brexiters now attempt to counter the Remain argument that “Nobody voted to be poorer.” The real reason behind the sovereignty argument is that it is intended to deflect discussion away from practical consequences.

The sovereignty red herring is used to ignore practical consequences to the extent that many Brexiters now argue that the hardships looming on the horizon are actually desirable because they will create a renewal of national morale by bringing about a return of the “Dunkirk Spirit.” Whaaaaaat…??



In summary, because the vote to leave the EU was the beginning of a process, not the end of it, the way that Brexiters are now trying to de-couple the vote from the consequences is crucial to them. The benefits promised by Brexit simply haven’t happened and actually look more distant now than ever before.

Immigration hasn’t been halted and they knew it never would be. The day after the referendum, Daniel Hannan stated the Leave campaign “Never said there was going to be some radical decline” (in immigration) and in March 2018 David Davis said that immigration is bound to rise.

Both have now subtly altered their position and say that what really matters is that Britain has its own immigration policy rather than the EU’s. Numbers don’t matter….. we can have as much immigration as (possibly more than) the EU but that will be OK because it would be us allowing it rather than being ordered to by Brussels. Does that sound to you like what we were told during the referendum campaign..? No..? I thought not.

As for free trade, many Brexiters now argue that this was the central argument in favour of Brexit. But it wasn’t. Immigration was and we all know it. And even if free trade had been, it wasn’t explained that any trade policy would involve the relaxation of immigration controls.


So, this is where Brexiters are now. All the pre-referendum swagger has gone, all the promises made have evaporated and in their place are a series of absurd and indefensible arguments which, even if they run together make two fundamentally different claims. One is that whatever happens now is not the fault of Brexiters. The other is that the referendum gave them a blank cheque to do whatever they please… that 23 June 2016 is a frozen in time moment that denotes either the end of their responsibility or the beginning of their freedom to define the consequences.

Both are linked to their boundless dishonesty since neither claim was entertained, let alone endorsed by the referendum.

But they are both profoundly unrealistic because politics did NOT end on 23 June 2016. On the contrary, it began a period of political dislocation in this country that will likely last for decades to come.

Brexiters seem to think that by winning the vote that would be an end to it and it is already obvious that this is not so. After 1 January 2021 Brexiters will – quite rightly – be held responsible for every consequence that flows from it.

That is the significance of the excuses they are putting forward to deny that the vote had any consequences. It’s not just that they don’t want to take the blame, they don’t want to take responsibility either.

The ultimate truth about Brexit is that it started as a protest movement with wholly un-thought out, unrealistic and disastrous policies and became – against the odds - a government set on delivering them.

The Brexiters are now running away from the consequences as fast as they can. The tragedy for our country is that in one way or another, the entire population – including the 48% who didn’t want anything to do with it - are stuck with having to live with them.
dookie On December 16, 2023
Foolish Bombu





, United Kingdom
#854New Post! Nov 20, 2020 @ 22:25:42
As a supplement to Jennifer's post, a link to the story re Portaloos and Lorry Parks (just in case anyone thinks this is a joke):-

READ ALL ABOUT IT
Jennifer1984 On July 20, 2022
Returner and proud





Penzance, United Kingdom
#855New Post! Nov 21, 2020 @ 07:32:44
@dookie Said

As a supplement to Jennifer's post, a link to the story re Portaloos and Lorry Parks (just in case anyone thinks this is a joke):-

READ ALL ABOUT IT



And let's not forget, that these facilities are going to have to be emptied, cleaned and maintained. A portaloo is only a temporary receptacle for human waste. It is not plumbed in. There is no sewage pipework beneath the ground to take the waste away.

I wonder how the portaloo servicing vehicles are going to get along the lines of full containers, to carry out the function of emptying and sanitising them, when the road is clogged with stationary, stranded lorries...??

And even when the facilities have been emptied, where are the servicing vehicles going to dispose of their loads...? Are current sewage treatment facilities in Kent up to the task...?

We're hearing nothing about these logistical difficulties. Has the government thought of this...?

It's one thing to put tens of thousands of portaloos along the side of the road. It's another thing altogether to service them.

And if these portaloos start to overflow due to not being adequately serviced, then there is the risk of disease....

Tens of thousands of portaloos, not properly serviced could cause levels of above ground sewage gas to pollute the air around motorways which could have serious affects on those breathing it. I'll spare you the details. Use your imagination.

Bacterial infections such as Salmonellosis can be picked up by local insects and spread quickly. Viral infections such as gastroenteritis and even Hepatitis A could spread like wildfire among drivers stranded for long periods in close proximity to overflowing toilets. Parasites such as tapeworm.... do you really want me to go there..?

Are drivers being warned of this..? Is anybody telling them of the risks they may face..?

Or is this yet another Brexit disaster waiting to happen..?
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