Was Judas a hero and most trusted disciple, or a traitor?

@4d4m Said

Judas Maccabeus was Jesus in his prior reincarnation.

@4d4m Said

I should add that Judas Iscariot was being manipulated and the initial question "was he a scumbag?" asks us to judge a puppet. It's true he turned Jesus in but under what duress?

@chaski Said

Option A. The Jesus is the son if god story is true. The prophecies had to be fulfilled. Judas was one of the key characters and most essential parts of the storyline, Prophecy. If it wasn’t for Judas, Jesus would never have been crucified. Since Judas was pre-selected for this duty he clearly was one of the heroes of the story.

Option B: The Jesus is the son of God story is not true. In this situation Judas was a backstabbing scumbag who turned on his best friend and leader for money. Not a hero.

@4d4m Said

I should add that Judas Iscariot was being manipulated and the initial question "was he a scumbag?" asks us to judge a puppet. It's true he turned Jesus in but under what duress?

@chaski Said

The "why?" is the question. .

@darkman666 Said

judus had free will, maybe jusus on own came up with the idea betrayed jesus. somehow, judus was thought jesus would take over judus's power over his group, and judus make sure that jesus couldn't it. human nature.

@GreatestIam2 Said

We have free will in reality, but scriptures are clear that we do not have a free will.

Do you believe reality or the Christian myth?

This link gives the appropriate text that shows that if Yahweh is real, we have no free will to believe or not.

Are non-believers doomed by Divine Design?

Scriptures say that God decides if a person will be a believer or non-believer. Those scriptures are shown in this link.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byHYeHN4ZUQ

Those quotes seems to really screw up the free will notion that Christians say God gives us.

The free will that God offers is kind of a joke anyway given the number of people whose free will to live is ignored in the billions of adults, children and babies that God is shown to torture and murder in scriptures.

If the bible and Yahweh are to be believed, and as a non-believer, I, of course, cannot believe it, thanks to God, by God’s design and will against me, then why did God deny me belief or faith?

Even more important to believers, might be to answer the question of; did God make you a believer in things that you can only hope exists and can never confirm?

Are you happy with God ignoring or negating your free will to think as you please?

I have assumed that God’s work of creating both believers and non-believers is working. If that is so, and you believers must think it so, just as I as a non-believer cannot think it is working, --- and Jesus said that those with faith could do all he did and more, --- then there is not even one believer or person of faith that has ever existed.

Either the bible and Christianity is all a lie, or there must be some who can do what Jesus did.


What is your choice of those two options?

Is the bible and Christianity a lie, or is God just not creating any people with faith, --- which would make all Christians who say they have faith, --- liars.

I mean no insult here but someone is definitely lying, if we read what is written and look at reality and listen to Christians.

What do you think is the truth?

Is it just for God to create people doomed to hell even if they wanted to believe?

Regards
DL

@darkman666 Said

i do believe in reality. i'm jewish. i don't believe in harden in the mind or what the man said the video. if christians believe in jesus, that's fine with me. god give birth to people, what they want to do, or follow. i never ever felt comfortable with jesus. somethiong more than a man., i am stay with judaism for tradition and it make sense to me. who i am, still some way try understand religion. simply right, in someways, fits me like a glove going on my hand. why change it now? christianisty never feel right to me. no personal reason, no past or resentment christ. i don't want to ever covert, my personal choice. that's free will!

@GreatestIam2 Said

Jesus wanted to test the old messianic prophesy, and failed, as he never returned to rule the Jews.

Regards
DL

@chaski Said

Again, this depends on whether or not the story and its biblical basis are true.

If Jesus was in fact that son of god and needed to be sacrificed to "save" our sous and fulfill scripture, then Judas was an essential player in the story. In that scenario, Judas was predetermined to play the role of Jesus' betrayer. Judas would not have had any choice in the matter. One would then surely think that God, would not condemn Judas for this.

HOWEVER, if the basis of the story is NOT true... (that is, if Jesus was not the son of god and it was not essential to the salvation of our souls and the fulfillment of prophesy that Jesus be betrayed)... then Judas would have been a backstabbing scum bag.

There are essentially two possibilities here:

1. The story is true, Judas was essential...

2. The story is not true, Judas just betrayed his friend...


No one can "prove" which of these is the reality. "We" can each have an opinion, but that is all it is >>> opinion.


Sure... "we" can invent things like "maybe the Romans tortured Judas"... maybe "they threatened to kill his family"... but those would be invented scenarios that are not based on the story. Thus, if we want to be rational, we should stick with the story as presented...

Otherwise we can invent all kinds of BS... "Captain Kirk and Science Officer Spock met with Judas... Spock used his Vulcan mind meld to make sure Judas betrayed Jesus so that the Romulans didn't change the course of history, thus stopping the Federation from ever being founded....

No, we should not just randomly invent possibilities. We should stick with the story as it is presented. And as it is presented, Judas betrayed Jesus for money. The "why?" is the question. Based on the story it was either a prophetic fulfilling necessity set up by God... OR it was a classic example of a greed.