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Did sin enter the world through Adam, Satan or Yahweh? Most, as well as scriptures, say that it was through Adam, even though Christians sing that Ada

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GreatestIam2 On January 06, 2023




Ottawa, Canada
#16New Post! Feb 07, 2020 @ 21:22:47
@darkman666 Said

what happen if the angels taught adam and eve good and evil before adam bite the apple, would adam bite apple anyway? would god give at that moment, adam, the freedom of choice?


Satan/talking serpent did just that.

We should all thank Satan otherwise none of us would be here.

Regards
DL
GreatestIam2 On January 06, 2023




Ottawa, Canada
#17New Post! Feb 07, 2020 @ 21:32:36
@mrmhead Said

A lot of points to question, but let's start here.

Why is it a sin to be deceived?

That's as bad as sending babies to hell that haven't been baptized yet.

Ignorance is a sin?

Edit: BTW, in case you haven't picked up from my other posts, I am in no way a bible scholar or reader or anything. Just a commoner that walked away from Protestant-ism before confirmation and more or less dismissed (but not necessarily hated) religion since.

This is one of the questions that drove me away.


Apologies if my statement was unclear.

The sin in the deception, I meant to say, was Satan's and not Eve's.

If you see what Satan/talking serpent said as a lie that is.

If not then she was just giving information or asking a question.

Gen 3;1 Now the serpent was more subtle than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman: 'Yea, hath God said: Ye shall not eat of any tree of the garden?'

That question mark seems to make it a question. Let's ignore it.

4 And the serpent said unto the woman: 'Ye shall not surely die;

5 for God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as God, knowing good and evil.'

I do not see a lie in those. DO you?

Regards
DL
Darkman666 On about 2 hours ago




Saint Louis, Missouri
#18New Post! Feb 07, 2020 @ 21:39:52
@GreatestIam2 Said

If you try to answer some of my questions, which have a moral content, I will try to speak to yours that do not.

Morals is my focus as there might be an end game and consensus for us.

Speculation is all we can do with your questions and are likely a waste of time.

Regards
DL



hypothetical was my approach to most of these religion topics, and maybe, a little bit of devil's advocate in the mix. mostly, i am not religious person, i question the bible, because seem more questions than answers. the bible doesn't seem me answer enough of the questions to believe anything the bible said.
GreatestIam2 On January 06, 2023




Ottawa, Canada
#19New Post! Feb 07, 2020 @ 21:41:00
@mrmhead Said

Quote:


So god must create sin in order for himself to exist?


No.

If a god, (imaginary to me), created evolution, which we know is a real law in nature, then he, like nature, would have had to include competition, which is the cause or reason for all human against human evil.

Regards
DL
chaski On about 18 hours ago
Stalker





Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#20New Post! Feb 07, 2020 @ 21:44:26
@GreatestIam2 Said

Sin to theology is crime or offence to philosophy.



Hmmmm.....

Sin = Crime. But not all crimes are sins and not all sins are crimes.

Offense to philosophy...?

@GreatestIam2 Said


As an analogy for evolutional behavior that hurts another of the same species...


Wait... but what if the behavior benefits the species as a whole?
chaski On about 18 hours ago
Stalker





Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#21New Post! Feb 07, 2020 @ 21:47:20
@GreatestIam2 Said

Satan/talking serpent did just that.


A. There is no indication in the story that the "talking serpent" was Satan. That comes from the poet John Milton.

B. In what way did either Satan and/or the talking serpent teach Adam and Eve about good and evil. Based on the story, they had to eat the fruit to gain that knowledge.
GreatestIam2 On January 06, 2023




Ottawa, Canada
#22New Post! Feb 07, 2020 @ 21:49:05
@darkman666 Said

if animals only have instincts to relay on to understand what feelings are. a wild animal would have to be taught different right and wrong dealing with moral issues.

so pets would understand moral right and wrong, because the animals will surrounding by humans, but in the wild. in the wild, you have a lion will attack you by instincts, then in society, a lion would be taught not to attack you.

so, I think animals would what understand moral sins, if they are taught what they are. human's instincts had moral sins build in. animal's instincts like moral sins has be taught. moral sins could be taught a mother to a child animal, but does a wild animal understand what is empathy mean like domestic animal does?


What we call morals are given to us via our DNA just like all other life.

We were tribal way before we could teach morals in any way other than example and punishing offenders.

Early man, even while big brained, could not verbally communicate till our brains grew even bigger and pushed our lower jaw out, which gave us the ability to do more than make the sounds chimps do today. That is a guess as to our ancient sounds/speech.

Regards
DL
GreatestIam2 On January 06, 2023




Ottawa, Canada
#23New Post! Feb 07, 2020 @ 21:53:12
@darkman666 Said

hypothetical was my approach to most of these religion topics, and maybe, a little bit of devil's advocate in the mix. mostly, i am not religious person, i question the bible, because seem more questions than answers. the bible doesn't seem me answer enough of the questions to believe anything the bible said.


You are correct and that is why I try to use morals to move Christians out of their brain dead state, and out of their vile and immoral religion.

People that live by the Golden Rule will do the same.

I hope all the good people here do so here and elsewhere.

It looks like the have, given the few Christians that engage.

Regards
DL
GreatestIam2 On January 06, 2023




Ottawa, Canada
#24New Post! Feb 07, 2020 @ 21:59:24
@chaski Said

A. There is no indication in the story that the "talking serpent" was Satan. That comes from the poet John Milton.

B. In what way did either Satan and/or the talking serpent teach Adam and Eve about good and evil. Based on the story, they had to eat the fruit to gain that knowledge.


A. Satan is called a serpent in Revelation, but I agree it is never specifically stated that the serpent of Eden is Satan.

Satan was cast to earth, some say, because she would not accept to serve man because she thought she was better. I assume all of mankind and we started in Eden. That is my logic trail and I am sticking to it till a better trail is found.

If not cast into Eden, when and where do you think she ended up?

B. As Yahweh's loyal opposition, she was charged with making sure A & E's eyes were opened so that they could reproduce.

A god would want more than two brain dead children. Right?

Regards
DL
Darkman666 On about 2 hours ago




Saint Louis, Missouri
#25New Post! Feb 07, 2020 @ 22:05:28
@GreatestIam2 Said

What we call morals are given to us via our DNA just like all other life.

We were tribal way before we could teach morals in any way other than example and punishing offenders.

Early man, even while big brained, could not verbally communicate till our brains grew even bigger and pushed our lower jaw out, which gave us the ability to do more than make the sounds chimps do today. That is a guess as to our ancient sounds/speech.

Regards
DL



Early man, even while big brained, could not verbally communicate till our brains grew even bigger and pushed our lower jaw out, which gave us the ability to do more than make the sounds chimps do today. That is a guess as to our ancient sounds/speech.

this could explain the reason, why early cultures use caves to carved pictures to tell stories.
GreatestIam2 On January 06, 2023




Ottawa, Canada
#26New Post! Feb 07, 2020 @ 22:12:19
@chaski Said

Hmmmm.....

Sin = Crime. But not all crimes are sins and not all sins are crimes.

Offense to philosophy...?



Wait... but what if the behavior benefits the species as a whole?


I agree that some sins are not crimes.

What crime that is not a sin did you have in mind?

Then I guess the whole species benefits, but individual animals don't care about that as instincts are individual and do not know they are in a species.

That is why humankind is so kind to each other even if they are not kin.

We are ending up too good to each other.

Regards
DL

P.S. Read it as offence in theology.
I am French. Please make allowances for poor grammar and diction mon ami.
GreatestIam2 On January 06, 2023




Ottawa, Canada
#27New Post! Feb 07, 2020 @ 22:17:36
@darkman666 Said

Early man, even while big brained, could not verbally communicate till our brains grew even bigger and pushed our lower jaw out, which gave us the ability to do more than make the sounds chimps do today. That is a guess as to our ancient sounds/speech.

this could explain the reason, why early cultures use caves to carved pictures to tell stories.


Possibly.

More likely, we, like other animals, used a lot of body language, and when attached to a grunt or squeal, could have quite the message attached.

I also think, just because I know telepathy is real, that it may have played a minor role.

Regards
DL
Darkman666 On about 2 hours ago




Saint Louis, Missouri
#28New Post! Feb 07, 2020 @ 22:24:59
@GreatestIam2 Said

Possibly.

More likely, we, like other animals, used a lot of body language, and when attached to a grunt or squeal, could have quite the message attached.

I also think, just because I know telepathy is real, that it may have played a minor role.

Regards
DL


mostly likely, body language, telepathy, and instincts works as one, depending if you know how to use them at one time, not separately.
chaski On about 18 hours ago
Stalker





Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#29New Post! Feb 07, 2020 @ 22:51:59
@GreatestIam2 Said

A. Satan is called a serpent in Revelation, but I agree it is never specifically stated that the serpent of Eden is Satan.

Satan was cast to earth, some say, because she would not accept to serve man because she thought she was better. I assume all of mankind and we started in Eden. That is my logic trail and I am sticking to it till a better trail is found.




Yes... Reveleations referee to Satan as an accident serpent. More likely as the Leviathan. However, the "satan" of the OT was clearly not a serpent, but rather one of God's specialists... accuser/prosecutor/challenger. Linking the serpent turned snake as punishment to the Satan of Revelations is a pretty big stretch.

"Satan was cast to earth" that one also is a bit of a stretch also.

I think you are confusing/merging the stories/names of Lilith, Lucifer, the King of Babylon and Satan.


@GreatestIam2 Said

If not cast into Eden, when and where do you think she ended up?


Cast into Eden? Do you mean cast out of Eden? Or cast out of heaven to Earth? Milton has Lucifer cast out of heaven and thence to hell... but that is an epic poem not scripture.
Darkman666 On about 2 hours ago




Saint Louis, Missouri
#30New Post! Feb 07, 2020 @ 23:09:29
what i wrote above, instincts and body language natural. your mind will natural analysis what you see in front of you.

for example - let us said, we happen to walk down the street, and we talking. we found that have things in common, we are friends.

naturally, your mind naturally start to analysis base on your instincts and your body language to figure me out.

the difference between your instincts and your body language and being telepathy.

let us said, you are describe some memory, like what said to who you were talking about an event. since you were not there, you go a along with story. you wonder what your friend is wearing during this event.

now, being telepathy, you see in your mind , what is wearing. you giving a partical or full description of what he or she was wearing that today in your mind. your friend never mentioned about his clothes in this event. your friend tell you with a great surprise that are correct, ask how did you know, were you there? you said you were guessing. your friend tell you, " you must be a physic? "

actually, i been told that i am physic or telepathy, because i can seen pictures in my mind that i image that i am with my friend at the event. when someone describe to me. with me, i think it could that more of consciences than i am than telepathy.

sometimes, i wonder?
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