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Jennifer1984 On about 4 hours ago
Returner and proud





Penzance, United Kingdom
#316New Post! Nov 28, 2019 @ 06:34:32
I love this..... Stick a blonde wig on John Bird and you have the spluttering, garbage talking Boris Johnson.

It was televised in 1996, but could easily be what passes for political discussion during this election.....

https://www.thepoke.co.uk/2019/08/02/a-comedy-sketch-from-1996-nails-brexit-so-totally-its-a-little-disturbing/


(the you tube button on TFS isn't working so copy and paste this to your browser)
mrmhead On about 9 hours ago




NE, Ohio
#317New Post! Nov 28, 2019 @ 14:40:00
@Jennifer1984 Said



(the you tube button on TFS isn't working so copy and paste this to your browser)


I never use the button

In the brackets []
put yt and then /yt with code in the middle:

Open yt Close Tn3U_xg-or-so Open /yt Close


Don't include the URL - just the video code usually after the =
cole On December 10, 2019




Stirling, United Kingdom
#318New Post! Nov 28, 2019 @ 21:03:48
Nice to see Brexit being a contentious issue as ever lol

As a leave supporter even i'm sick to the back teeth of hearing about it and it's long past the time that it should be dominating British Politics. As a country our politicians must look like fools. Thank the lord for Trump who seems to have come at the right time to take some of the heat off.

Being from a traditional Labour voting family I just can't back flip flop Corbyn the professional fence sitter who again judging by reports I read earlier is changing tactics to appeal to the leave supporter in areas where they are weak and leave was the choice. His policies are almost fantastical and very left wing. Lets re-nationalise everything! We'll tax the rich! Even the IFS and FactCheck have said it just wouldn't even scratch the surface of what he wants to spend. They have changed their mind on nearly everything they have said and the rampant antisemitism has persisted with Corbyn either not willing to do anything or simply burying his head in the sand. I'm sorry but for a man who was cautioned by Police several times at various different rallies and protests in his younger years he just seems to lack any conviction or backbone and wants to just say anything he thinks will get him votes. I honestly believe he would make a worse PM than anything Tories have to offer and that coming from me is saying something.

Not that I've ever been a Tory voter I still believe they have the best and more cohesive plan to deal with Brexit and they seem to be the only party (Brexit Party have no seats so not counting them) that want to actually get this done, right or wrong it simply needs to be done, it was voted for and using the argument that people were lied to is a terrible argument as we are always being lied to by our politicians. Politics is really who can tell the more convincing story. How often have policies changed once they actually gain power. So get Brexit done and if you'll wanna have another referendum to re-join i'll just not vote lol But as a Leave supporter they seem my better option. I won't vote Brexit Party as they want to leave for all the wrong reason and I'm simply not going to back a party of racists.

Lib Dems are like WTF! We'll just forget any of the whole Brexit thing happened and pretend that we all like each other. They might gain a seat or two but it's not going to be anywhere near what Swinson was expecting or hoping for. You simply cannot forget a major polarizing vote, it's frightfully undemocratic. Of course the info that her husband's company benefits directly from the EU to the tune of £3.2m p/a kinda makes her look biased. She's in cloud cuckoo land. At least offer up another referendum. Although I did read an article earlier where one of her team has since said they never once said they were just going to forget it but rather they would seek a people's vote (another change of tactics?)

SNP seem to be on course to gain an upswing in Scotland which is a shame as they haven't done that great running the country the last few years. I have voted SNP in the past and might again in the future but not while they seek to rejoin the EU at the drop of a hat. The idea that we (Scotland) could seamlessly detach ourselves from the UK without issues even though they are our largest trading partner yet we can't even achieve a seamless departure from the EU is just bats*** crazy. I watched her (Nicola Sturgeon) interview with Andrew Neil and she got an absolute mauling. She's clearly delusional. It breaks my heart as I would love of course to see Scotland an independent country but if we are swapping one master for another i'd rather not go through the pain. Her parties expected gain in Scotland is simply not a vote in favour of her policies but merely because the other choices are s***. If they could just drop IndyRef2 for a moment and concentrate on running the bloody country they would more likely get a more favourable outcome once it came back around again.

I have to admit none of the choices are all that appealing for the General Election. I really wish that British Politics wasn't so dominated with 2 parties. I feel like an American and want to say "I voted for the other guy"
shadowen On June 15, 2020




Bunyip Bend, Australia
#319New Post! Nov 29, 2019 @ 12:59:55
@nooneinparticular Said

With which part?


The part i quoted..

"The Benn Act forced Johnson to request an extension if, and only if, he could not secure a deal by the 31st. Naturally, this means that in order to avoid that, he must negotiate a deal before that time. The options I stated earlier (i.e. party solidarity and negotiation with potential allies) gave him a good chance of doing so. "
shadowen On June 15, 2020




Bunyip Bend, Australia
#320New Post! Nov 29, 2019 @ 13:04:29
@nooneinparticular Said

That's kind of how all military alliances work though. Even the ones currently in place. Alliances revolve around mutual military help. Sometimes that means you get dragged into wars that are not of national interest or all that beneficial in the short term to a country in question.

The problem with an EU army is that the people who would make the decision to deploy it are not elected by the public and are not held to account by the public. Remember that in the EU all executive power lies with UNELECTED bureaucrats. Now some people don't have a problem with this but, as Brexit has shown us, others do.
shadowen On June 15, 2020




Bunyip Bend, Australia
#321New Post! Nov 29, 2019 @ 13:11:42
From a Brexit perspective the first MRP result is encouraging...
shadowen On June 15, 2020




Bunyip Bend, Australia
#322New Post! Nov 29, 2019 @ 13:27:35
No surprise whatsoever to hear JS state that she had been working closely with Dominic Grieve for over a year to stop Brexit. So in 2017 he stood as the Conservative candidate and promised to uphold the result of the 2016 people's vote (and back leaving with NO deal if one acceptable to the party couldnt be reached). Then (assuming he wasnt doing so already) he was elected and soon started to work with an opposition party to prevent his government from doing what they were elected to do. Indeed, before the 2017 election he stated on his personal website that "the decision of the electorate in the Referendum must be respected".

Still, if the MRP is right then Grieve and the likes of Luciana Berger and Chuka Umunna will be out on their arse...
nooneinparticular On August 05, 2020




, Hawaii
#323New Post! Nov 29, 2019 @ 18:20:57
@shadowen Said

The problem with an EU army is that the people who would make the decision to deploy it are not elected by the public and are not held to account by the public. Remember that in the EU all executive power lies with UNELECTED bureaucrats. Now some people don't have a problem with this but, as Brexit has shown us, others do.


Such a stance is dependent on numerous assumptions, not the least of which is how, if the EU were to create a centralized army, they would decide how and when to use it. How do we know that the power to declare war would even rest with the executive body to begin with? Why would we make this assumption?
nooneinparticular On August 05, 2020




, Hawaii
#324New Post! Nov 29, 2019 @ 18:23:41
@shadowen Said

The part i quoted..

"The Benn Act forced Johnson to request an extension if, and only if, he could not secure a deal by the 31st. Naturally, this means that in order to avoid that, he must negotiate a deal before that time. The options I stated earlier (i.e. party solidarity and negotiation with potential allies) gave him a good chance of doing so. "


Which part? That he had to make a deal by the 31st or that closing ranks and reaching out to potential allies were sound strategies?
Conflict On July 26, 2020




Alcal√° de Henares, Spain
#325New Post! Nov 29, 2019 @ 20:59:21
Cooperation is one of the many things the UK has learned the value of since joining the EU. If it breaks away now, it'll send a message to everyone that existing as an independent nation is a path worth taking. In our day and age, we've learned to share more with our neighbours, exchange ideas and intermarry like never before.

Brexit shouldn't happen, because if the flood begins, we'll have to ride the tide until we either drown or find a way out of it on our own, without the help that'd have once made sure we'd have never had to face such a disaster in the first place.
shadowen On June 15, 2020




Bunyip Bend, Australia
#326New Post! Nov 30, 2019 @ 10:58:35
@nooneinparticular Said

How do we know that the power to declare war would even rest with the executive body to begin with? Why would we make this assumption?

Because they are the EXECUTIVE power! I mean just look at how the EU runs. Look too though at the changes over the past 5 yrs to the CFSP, CSDP and how the executive have driven these changes. Look too at the changes they have driven to PESCO. Furthermore, the executive already drives EU foreign policy. To not assume that the executive would ultimately be the ones to decide how any European Army would be deployed and when would, IMO, be dangerously naive.
shadowen On June 15, 2020




Bunyip Bend, Australia
#327New Post! Nov 30, 2019 @ 11:01:36
@nooneinparticular Said

Which part? That he had to make a deal by the 31st or that closing ranks and reaching out to potential allies were sound strategies?


He made a deal but the rebel alliance kept on moving the goal posts. Anyway, what allies could he have reached out to that would have enabled the UK to have left on the 31st?
nooneinparticular On August 05, 2020




, Hawaii
#328New Post! Nov 30, 2019 @ 19:21:17
@shadowen Said

Because they are the EXECUTIVE power! I mean just look at how the EU runs. Look too though at the changes over the past 5 yrs to the CFSP, CSDP and how the executive have driven these changes. Look too at the changes they have driven to PESCO. Furthermore, the executive already drives EU foreign policy. To not assume that the executive would ultimately be the ones to decide how any European Army would be deployed and when would, IMO, be dangerously naive.


The executive cannot do anything without the European Parliament's approval. Their reach of power extends only to proposing legislation and enticing countries to vote for it. It is only with the approval of the nations that the EU has achieved the power it already wields over the process. If that has become overbearing, it is only because the nations allowed it in the first place.
nooneinparticular On August 05, 2020




, Hawaii
#329New Post! Nov 30, 2019 @ 19:42:34
@shadowen Said

He made a deal but the rebel alliance kept on moving the goal posts. Anyway, what allies could he have reached out to that would have enabled the UK to have left on the 31st?


How about Labour, who you have helpfully pointed out multiple times that they are not exactly against Brexit? How about the rebel Tories, of which ignoring their concerns only resulted in them splitting from the party? Dealing with both parties would require a certain amount of compromise that stands a good chance of leaving no one particularly pleased, but even that is better than the alternative of this stupid multi-years long deadlock.

Brexit may have been a lot about principles, but it's high time that reality set in. The reality is that in order to pass Brexit, it must pass legislation, and in order to do that you must have the votes to do so. Pruning your ranks of 'traitors' is counter productive to this goal. The need for votes necessitates two strategies. One is to hope that, eventually, the people vote in enough of one side or another to finally reach a decision on this matter. A risky gamble and one I don't see working any time soon. The other is to compromise enough with the people you can reach some sort of common ground with in order to get the necessary votes to pass. A bitter pill to swallow, but a much more assured path forward than hoping the populace 'votes correctly this time'. So really, the only question that needs to be asked of the public is "Are your feelings on Brexit, whatever they may be, so important that you would rather potentially drag this out for years, if not longer, rather than seeking a compromise resolution now?"
Jennifer1984 On about 4 hours ago
Returner and proud





Penzance, United Kingdom
#330New Post! Dec 01, 2019 @ 07:53:55
Even a "compromise" resolution isn't a resolution at all because it doesn't finalise Brexit. All it would do is make a statement on intended future policy.

What we are talking about here is only a withdrawal agreement, don't forget. Issues such as a future trade relationship will take many, many years and the EU aren't going to prioritise them to benefit Britain. They'll be conducted at the a pace set by the EU while Britain has to trade under WTO rules... which in turn will bring greater hardship to the general public.

And let's not forget, there is already the beginnings of a movement in Britan to re-join the EU should we leave. Trust me..... if we leave the EU, the 16+ million who voted to remain are not going to go away. And we are going to be a bloody thorn in the government's flesh. That I can promise.

And then there will be the independence movements in Scotland and the increasing unease with which Northern Ireland is viewing its relationship with England. Johnson's shafting of the DUP over the WA has not gone down at all well over there.

Getting Brexit across the finishing line would not be the end of anything. It would be just the beginning of many more years of upheaval.

This will rumble on for decades unless we stop it altogether. The only path to that is to elect a hung Parliament or a minority Labour government that needs SNP and LibDem support to form a government acquiesce to the price of their support which will be at the very least a second referendum with remain on the ballot paper. And in Scotland's case, another referendum on independence which, given the feeling in Scotland at this time is almost 100% certain to go the SNP's way.

The headache that will bring to Parliament will make Brexit pale into insignificance.

If a second referendum results in a remain vote then we scrap the whole bloody mess. There may be some civil disturbance arising out of that but it won't last long. Life will return to normal quite quickly.

The only way to "Get Brexit done" is to get it done for.

We are going around the houses on this subject in many different ways but consistently ignoring the basic issue.

Will it happen or won't it...??

That is where we are in the here and now. Everything else is entirely dependent on the outcome of that question and will transpire in the fullness of time.
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