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Election 2020 Issues: Immigration

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DiscordTiger On about 4 hours ago
The Queen of Random

Administrator




Emerald City, United States (g
#16New Post! Jun 05, 2019 @ 03:43:41
Sorry. To get back to it. The belief is illegal immigrants are stealing jobs from citizens. Like it’s a fight for resources and that is why they are so unwanted

Like construction or cleaning isn’t necessary a min wage type job ( they are hard af) but often demeaned. And thought of as “stolen”. But seriously they are just physically hard and people can’t always do them, or want to do them for years.
Leon On November 09, 2019




San Diego, California
#17New Post! Jun 05, 2019 @ 03:50:29
@DiscordTiger Said

Sorry. To get back to it. The belief is illegal immigrants are stealing jobs from citizens. Like it’s a fight for resources and that is why they are so unwanted

Like construction or cleaning isn’t necessary a min wage type job ( they are hard af) but often demeaned. And thought of as “stolen”. But seriously they are just physically hard and people can’t always do them, or want to do them for years.


No worries, I just found it funny is all. I’m fine with the topic going off on tangents, as long as it sparks discussion on issues.

And I agree with you on what you’re saying.
mrmhead On 18 minutes ago




NE, Ohio
#18New Post! Jun 05, 2019 @ 11:33:22
@Leon Said

And since when did this thread turn from immigration to minimum wage? That was supposed to be another episode of this series.

Oh well, it just makes one less week to have to do this.



Oops
OK I'll keep my reply to the above on the back burner for the next episode.
mrmhead On 18 minutes ago




NE, Ohio
#19New Post! Jun 05, 2019 @ 11:40:51
@DiscordTiger Said

Sorry. To get back to it. The belief is illegal immigrants are stealing jobs from citizens. Like it’s a fight for resources and that is why they are so unwanted

Like construction or cleaning isn’t necessary a min wage type job ( they are hard af) but often demeaned. And thought of as “stolen”. But seriously they are just physically hard and people can’t always do them, or want to do them for years.



I can't speak of first hand knowledge of the extent, but I hear of complaints that other resources are schooling, hospitalization/medical care, other "safety nets" that citizens pay for through taxes and fees.
chaski On 33 minutes ago
Stalker





Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#20New Post! Jul 11, 2019 @ 17:40:19
A few interesting little factoids:

> Did you know that it is estimated that between 50% to 75% of undocumented immigrants (aka illegal aliens) pay federal, state and local income tax?

> Did you know it is estimated that only 56% of U.S. citizens pay federal income tax (44% not paying federal income tax)?

(Thus >>> Statistically speaking, the % of undocumented immigrants and % of U.S. citizens paying federal income tax is about the same.)

> Did you know that, since an undocumented immigrants cannot legally obtain a Social Security Number (SSN) the IRS has come up with a work around for them? This work around is called an Individual Taxpayer Identification Number (ITIN) and looks much like a SSN (but starts with "9" ).

One might wonder "Why would the IRS do this?" The answer is because "we" want "their" tax revenue.

> Did you know that being undocumented, these "illegal aliens" do not get any refunds, write-offs, nor deductibles?

> Did you know that undocumented immigrants are estimated to pay in about $7 billion per year into Social Security?

> Did you know that undocumented immigrants pay all sales tax, just like U.S. citizens?

> Did you know (as an example of just one state) that in Arizona the state’s undocumented immigrants generate $2.4 billion in tax revenue per year, but only cost about $1.4 billion in their use of benefit programs?

etc.
Leon On November 09, 2019




San Diego, California
#21New Post! Jul 12, 2019 @ 03:08:26
@chaski Said

A few interesting little factoids:

> Did you know that it is estimated that between 50% to 75% of undocumented immigrants (aka illegal aliens) pay federal, state and local income tax?

> Did you know it is estimated that only 56% of U.S. citizens pay federal income tax (44% not paying federal income tax)?

(Thus >>> Statistically speaking, the % of undocumented immigrants and % of U.S. citizens paying federal income tax is about the same.)

> Did you know that, since an undocumented immigrants cannot legally obtain a Social Security Number (SSN) the IRS has come up with a work around for them? This work around is called an Individual Taxpayer Identification Number (ITIN) and looks much like a SSN (but starts with "9" ).

One might wonder "Why would the IRS do this?" The answer is because "we" want "their" tax revenue.

> Did you know that being undocumented, these "illegal aliens" do not get any refunds, write-offs, nor deductibles?

> Did you know that undocumented immigrants are estimated to pay in about $7 billion per year into Social Security?

> Did you know that undocumented immigrants pay all sales tax, just like U.S. citizens?

> Did you know (as an example of just one state) that in Arizona the state’s undocumented immigrants generate $2.4 billion in tax revenue per year, but only cost about $1.4 billion in their use of benefit programs?

etc.


So basically, they are contributing a lot more than receiving in tax dollars. Interesting.

And that’s not even accounting for what they provide for in terms of private enterprise, such as cheap labor, etc.

While I don’t necessarily vouch for a completely open border, this is as strong a case as can be made for it. As I stated earlier in this thread, we need to make it much easier for non-criminals to immigrate. Contrary to what right wingers want you to believe, removing them from our nation would be a big blow to our economy than the opposite.
gakINGKONG 11 minutes ago




, Florida
#22New Post! Jul 12, 2019 @ 04:44:35
@Leon Said

If you were President and had a House majority and Senate supermajority on your side, how would you reform our nation’s system of immigration?



If I were president for a day and could make immigration better, what would I do?

I would set up a standard for everyone, ONE standard and it would cover all the things that non-citizens would want to do.

A) Suppose I'm a citizen from another country and I'd like to travel to the United States on vacation, what do I do?

Well, I'm the president and I say please come to the United States with your passport and be prepared to be inspected through homeland security for things like fruits and vegitables.

That's been my experience and I feel like we all get to do this regardless.

B) If you're planning to stay longer or would like to be a citizen then go ahead and file with immigration. They give out little canidies and knick knacks while you wait and should have you up and running before no time.

C) If you are an illegal alien and don't care no how about American laws, just know that it's a sad day for all of us. Life is hard and taxes are too high. If enough people like you want to take advantage of enough people like us, at the end of the day we all pay and the whole thing collapses.
mrmhead On 18 minutes ago




NE, Ohio
#23New Post! Jul 12, 2019 @ 13:20:33
@gakINGKONG Said

If I were president for a day and could make immigration better, what would I do?

I would set up a standard for everyone, ONE standard and it would cover all the things that non-citizens would want to do.

A) Suppose I'm a citizen from another country and I'd like to travel to the United States on vacation, what do I do?

Well, I'm the president and I say please come to the United States with your passport and be prepared to be inspected through homeland security for things like fruits and vegitables.

That's been my experience and I feel like we all get to do this regardless.

B) If you're planning to stay longer or would like to be a citizen then go ahead and file with immigration. They give out little canidies and knick knacks while you wait and should have you up and running before no time.

C) If you are an illegal alien and don't care no how about American laws, just know that it's a sad day for all of us. Life is hard and taxes are too high. If enough people like you want to take advantage of enough people like us, at the end of the day we all pay and the whole thing collapses.


I think that's part of the problem. I thought I've heard reports it could take more than a year to get a court date set up because of a lack of resources.
Leon On November 09, 2019




San Diego, California
#24New Post! Aug 13, 2019 @ 20:03:55
With the rounding up of illegals well under way, now he is going after the legal immigrants, with estimates of it cutting in half the influx effective October.

Now he just needs to figure out how to get those undesirable US citizens out and “back where they came from”.
4d4m On 59 minutes ago




Leavenworth, Kansas
#25New Post! Oct 28, 2019 @ 06:20:39
Before the Mexican American War many US citizens moved to parts of Mexico (currently the Western United States) and were allowed to settle there. When the Mexican American War did break out many of the colonias were very happy to become Americans, not having a lot of loyalty to their government and believing they would be treated equally and fairly under US law. They welcomed US takeover (see the story of Dona Tula of Santa Fe). The treatment of the Mexican Americans was less than exemplary. However, Mexicans were able to freely pass between the new borders, mostly seeking work.
For the rest of the 19th and 20th Centuries the US exerted it's role as the Western Hemisphere's most powerful nation to influence trade, build and keep control of the Panama Canal, and fight proxy wars against Communism in South and Central America.
https://www.yachana.org/teaching/resources/interventions.html
The above is a link to a list of US incursions in South and Central America.
During the 70's and 80's US involvement in Panama, Nicaragua and Guatemala caused an outpouring of refugees; some of them from regimes or revolutionary groups financed by US tax dollars. ( see Iran Contra affair).
It should be noted that most of these CIA funded ventures were less than legal and the proxy armies didn't necessarily adhere to the Laws of Land Warfare. Rather than grant the members of this Exodus to the US refugee status which would be an admission of guilt, the Regan administration and others chose to "look the other way" with regards to immigrants crossing our border with Mexico. That is to say they didn't pursue the issue with too much vigor.
As US citizens we have to understand our involvement and responsibility in the economic and political climates in the nations of Central and South America. We also must understand our governments responsibility in creating the present situations in those nations and the living situations in our own country involving families who have emigrated here. Many of the persons being deported have family members who are US citizens - some due to the policy of granting US citizenship to persons born here even if their parents are here illegally.
Solving this problem - if indeed it is a problem - does not require heavy handedness on the part of the ICE or Border Patrol, and splitting up families is simply wrong when our policies are the impetus for those situations existing in the first place.
4d4m On 59 minutes ago




Leavenworth, Kansas
#26New Post! Oct 28, 2019 @ 21:50:26
It should be noted here the way the immigration "issue" became an issue in the first place. Criticism of the NAFTA agreement that sent our jobs south. Ross Perot running for president was against NAFTA while Bill Clinton and George Bush Sr were for it. Ross Perot said there would be a great "sucking sound" of jobs heading south. He was correct. The major auto manufacturers in particular moved their plants to Mexico where they could pay workers $9.00 a day for labor, not have to comply with OSHA or EPA standards anymore. Flint Michigan in particular was hit economically. The movie "Rodger and Me" by Micheal Moore highlights the issue. Of course the savings cost of making the autos was not passed on to the consumer nor did the quality of life of the average Mexican citizen improve. Today Detroit and it's outlying areas, once the powerhouse of the American Auto industry, is in a state of economic stagnation with abandoned houses and buildings. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decline_of_Detroit
( above a link to wiki article on Detroit's economic fall)
Many Americans, and people of other nations, were critical of the World Trade Organizations efforts to combine the entire worlds economy citing the problems with NAFTA. The World Trade Organization protests began in earnest in the 1990's.
A lot of political effort has been applied by globalists to circumvent and get rid of anti World Trade Organization criticism and distrust. The political monologue presented that "Mexicans are here to take your jobs" is simply to dislocate you from the truth - our jobs got sent to Mexico by NAFTA.
This monologue has been aided by the rise of the Zeta cartel in Northern Mexico. The Zeta cartel is much more violent than other cartels. Other cartels did not want to discourage US tourism into Mexico because that would not only hurt their drug business but the businesses in their communities, making them enemies of the local population and putting them at risk of being sold out to the authorities.
The Zeta cartel was started by a Mexican Colonel, who went to El Escuela De Los Americas in Panama, a military school run by the United States Army and CIA. The Colonel and his men were sent to Northern Mexico to defeat the cartels and instead, as the story goes, started their own cartel. They have been involved in mass murders and across the border violent crime.
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Zetas)
above is a link to a wiki article on the Zetas.
This has helped fuel the anti Mexican sentiment in our nation to the benefit of the official monologue. Trump's wall is an expansion of this idea, a rallying point for the meek minded ( like Make America Great Again - as if it wasn't already great ). The whole issue is a manufactured slight of hand, a distraction away from the globalist agenda, and like a rumor has infected the minds of people to the point of fanaticism.
Leon On November 09, 2019




San Diego, California
#27New Post! Oct 28, 2019 @ 22:07:53
@4d4m Said

It should be noted here the way the immigration "issue" became an issue in the first place. Criticism of the NAFTA agreement that sent our jobs south. Ross Perot running for president was against NAFTA while Bill Clinton and George Bush Sr were for it. Ross Perot said there would be a great "sucking sound" of jobs heading south. He was correct. The major auto manufacturers in particular moved their plants to Mexico where they could pay workers $9.00 a day for labor, not have to comply with OSHA or EPA standards anymore. Flint Michigan in particular was hit economically. The movie "Rodger and Me" by Micheal Moore highlights the issue. Of course the savings cost of making the autos was not passed on to the consumer nor did the quality of life of the average Mexican citizen improve. Today Detroit and it's outlying areas, once the powerhouse of the American Auto industry, is in a state of economic stagnation with abandoned houses and buildings. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decline_of_Detroit
( above a link to wiki article on Detroit's economic fall)
Many Americans, and people of other nations, were critical of the World Trade Organizations efforts to combine the entire worlds economy citing the problems with NAFTA. The World Trade Organization protests began in earnest in the 1990's.
A lot of political effort has been applied by globalists to circumvent and get rid of anti World Trade Organization criticism and distrust. The political monologue presented that "Mexicans are here to take your jobs" is simply to dislocate you from the truth - our jobs got sent to Mexico by NAFTA.
This monologue has been aided by the rise of the Zeta cartel in Northern Mexico. The Zeta cartel is much more violent than other cartels. Other cartels did not want to discourage US tourism into Mexico because that would not only hurt their drug business but the businesses in their communities, making them enemies of the local population and putting them at risk of being sold out to the authorities.
The Zeta cartel was started by a Mexican Colonel, who went to El Escuela De Los Americas in Panama, a military school run by the United States Army and CIA. The Colonel and his men were sent to Northern Mexico to defeat the cartels and instead, as the story goes, started their own cartel. They have been involved in mass murders and across the border violent crime.
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Zetas)
above is a link to a wiki article on the Zetas.
This has helped fuel the anti Mexican sentiment in our nation to the benefit of the official monologue. Trump's wall is an expansion of this idea, a rallying point for the meek minded ( like Make America Great Again - as if it wasn't already great ). The whole issue is a manufactured slight of hand, a distraction away from the globalist agenda, and like a rumor has infected the minds of people to the point of fanaticism.


Well said!

I will say this though, and that is breaking up global trade and economies is probably a futile effort at this point. We can try and put in some rules, but the fact of the matter is that our manufacturing jobs simply are not coming back no matter how much we try, for a multitude of reasons - and not just because of foreign outsourcing. The world is catching up with us from an economic standpoint. And that doesn’t necessarily have to be a bad thing either. We, as Americans can still do a lot to try and stay in the race though in our changing world, namely strengthening our middle class, education, infrastructure, switch to green tech, etc - all which we haven’t been doing a very good job of. We have the corporate rich, so we still have a head start - we just need to manage our path forward much more wisely.
4d4m On 59 minutes ago




Leavenworth, Kansas
#28New Post! Oct 28, 2019 @ 23:56:29
I agree for the most part. The main problem I see is the threat of another Cold War this time with China who we've enriched and helped gain technology, not necessarily intentionally. The Cold War was a time when Americans blindly followed their leaders out of fear. If one wanted to rule the world during that time one could be successful by ruling The Soviet Union and the United States.
The idea that a One World Democratic Government could exist in this time - when Western Civilization is under siege and the rest of the world is ruled by despots and tyrants is naive. We like to think because the Wall came down that democracy won. That is not the case. A dictator (president for life Putin) in The Russian Federation, the communist pretending to be capitalist government in Beijing, our own government sabotaging it's alliances and giving away our technology and wealth are all indicative of a ruse in the making.
mrmhead On 18 minutes ago




NE, Ohio
#29New Post! Oct 29, 2019 @ 00:41:33
@4d4m Said

It should be noted here the way the immigration "issue" became an issue in the first place. Criticism of the NAFTA agreement that sent our jobs south. Ross Perot running for president was against NAFTA while Bill Clinton and George Bush Sr were for it. Ross Perot said there would be a great "sucking sound" of jobs heading south. He was correct. The major auto manufacturers in particular moved their plants to Mexico where they could pay workers $9.00 a day for labor, not have to comply with OSHA or EPA standards anymore. Flint Michigan in particular was hit economically. The movie "Rodger and Me" by Micheal Moore highlights the issue. Of course the savings cost of making the autos was not passed on to the consumer nor did the quality of life of the average Mexican citizen improve. Today Detroit and it's outlying areas, once the powerhouse of the American Auto industry, is in a state of economic stagnation with abandoned houses and buildings. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decline_of_Detroit
( above a link to wiki article on Detroit's economic fall)
Many Americans, and people of other nations, were critical of the World Trade Organizations efforts to combine the entire worlds economy citing the problems with NAFTA. The World Trade Organization protests began in earnest in the 1990's.
A lot of political effort has been applied by globalists to circumvent and get rid of anti World Trade Organization criticism and distrust. The political monologue presented that "Mexicans are here to take your jobs" is simply to dislocate you from the truth - our jobs got sent to Mexico by NAFTA.
This monologue has been aided by the rise of the Zeta cartel in Northern Mexico. The Zeta cartel is much more violent than other cartels. Other cartels did not want to discourage US tourism into Mexico because that would not only hurt their drug business but the businesses in their communities, making them enemies of the local population and putting them at risk of being sold out to the authorities.
The Zeta cartel was started by a Mexican Colonel, who went to El Escuela De Los Americas in Panama, a military school run by the United States Army and CIA. The Colonel and his men were sent to Northern Mexico to defeat the cartels and instead, as the story goes, started their own cartel. They have been involved in mass murders and across the border violent crime.
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Zetas)
above is a link to a wiki article on the Zetas.
This has helped fuel the anti Mexican sentiment in our nation to the benefit of the official monologue. Trump's wall is an expansion of this idea, a rallying point for the meek minded ( like Make America Great Again - as if it wasn't already great ). The whole issue is a manufactured slight of hand, a distraction away from the globalist agenda, and like a rumor has infected the minds of people to the point of fanaticism.


If I'm not mistaken, Trump is not a fan of WTO, and he has anti-Mexican sentiment.
So is he just a dupe in "the plan"?
4d4m On 59 minutes ago




Leavenworth, Kansas
#30New Post! Oct 29, 2019 @ 01:04:56
Donald Trump was sold to the Republicans as an alternative to the Neo Cons. The Neo Cons, so called because they were originally Democrats founded by Irving Crystal the socialist, changed parties as they felt the Liberal stance against the Soviet Union was too weak. Republicans noticed the similarities between the agendas of the Democrats and Republican parties and where this was all leading. The start of this internal revolution was the Tea Party Caucus. Donald Trump was put into office as part of that movement. Here's where it gets messy.
Donald has given the anti Globalists a bad name. Many of the things he has done have actually been in the favor of those seeking to destroy Democracy on a world wide basis. He has made the Republicans who are against the Neo Cons seem to be a group of uneducated, racist, anti-semites. This may be how he got into the position in the first place; as a sabateur possibly. Having said that - recent events in the Middle East have shaken everything up. There has been blatant attempts to start a war. possibly WWIII and/or create the destruction of Israel by nuclear armed Iran. In the face of this Donald Trumps' restraint has been admirable.
This restraint has caused him to come under fire. The CIA has started impeachment proceedings in an attempt to get him out of office. possibly hoping Pence will not be so bold as to go against the currents created leading us toward a unecessary war.
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