Is belief in the supernatural an intelligent person’s game?

chaski

Stalker

Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,

#31

Jul 02, 2019 @ 21:44:46

@bob_the_fisherman Said

You and I create two machines. One allows us to stay in a moment of time (a stasis machine). The other allows us to move backwards in time.

We enter both machines and start moving backwards at a rate of 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 years per second, with the rate multiplying by a factor of itself each second. According to your theory we could do that for eternity and be no closer to a time at which time began.

In order for us to be at a point in time (ie., now) time must be quantifiable. If time is not quantifiable we can not be here -

Oh!!!

I just got "IT".

YOU were proving that God cannot exist!

You, God and I create two machines. One allows us to stay in a moment of time (a stasis machine). The other allows us to move backwards in time.

We enter both machines and start moving backwards at a rate of 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 years per second, with the rate multiplying by a factor of itself each second.

(Of course, "we" would only enter one of the time machines to go backwards in time as one of the "time machines" would remain in a moment of time; as a stasis machine it wouldn't "go" anywhere.)

We could do that for eternity and be no closer to a time at which God was created/formed/born.

In order for us to be at a point in time (ie., now) time must be quantifiable. If time is not quantifiable we can not be here...

Thus god is not infinite.

Brilliant! Meaningless drivel that proves nothing, but Brilliant!

0

Edited: July 02, 2019 @ 21:45

mrmhead

NE, Ohio

#32

Jul 02, 2019 @ 23:14:17

@bob_the_fisherman Said

You need to back up a bit in your quote from Chaski:

@chaski Said

> The universe is and has always been infinite. It has been here, one might say omnipresent, in one form or another forever going both back in time and forward in time. The universe was neither formed nor created.

Even scientists have a hard time creating something from nothing. The standard theory of physics and mechanics break down "way back when", but maybe quantum or another groundbreaking theory could shed light what happened then.

There has been a theory that the "universe" was forever looping from a big bang to a big squeeze to another big bang and back again forever - which has lately been questioned since recent measurements indicate the expansion is still accelerating.

There is also a theory that the "bang" was a birth, so to speak, from another universe - maybe the outgrowth of another universe's black hole

0

Erimitus

The mind of God, Antarctica

#33

Jul 02, 2019 @ 23:44:42

what is on the other side of the edge of the universe

0

chaski

Stalker

Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,

#34

Jul 03, 2019 @ 00:02:20

@mrmhead Said

...but maybe quantum or another groundbreaking theory could shed light what happened then.

There has been a theory that the "universe" was forever looping from a big bang to a big squeeze to another big bang and back again forever - which has lately been questioned since recent measurements indicate the expansion is still accelerating.

There is also a theory that the "bang" was a birth, so to speak, from another universe - maybe the outgrowth of another universe's black hole

I could "see" either of those as possible... or that the universe is something that physicists really just don't fully understand. I really don't think physicists know much about the Universe. I am reminded of two things...

First a quote from Einstein: "Joy and amazement of the beauty and grandeur of this world of which man can just form a faint notion.

Second the blind men assessing an elephant.

PS

The religious blind guy was checking out the elephant's poop...

All you religious guys and gals out there: I was just kidding so relax.

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Edited: July 03, 2019 @ 00:07

mrmhead

NE, Ohio

#35

Jul 03, 2019 @ 00:20:56

@Erimitus Said

what is on the other side of the edge of the universe

A bigger turtle.

1

mrmhead

NE, Ohio

#36

Jul 03, 2019 @ 00:22:15

@mrmhead Said

- maybe the outgrowth of another universe's black hole

.... well, that could explain a few things ....

0

Erimitus

The mind of God, Antarctica

#37

Jul 03, 2019 @ 01:31:39

@mrmhead Said

A bigger turtle.

chuckle

0

chaski

Stalker

Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,

#38

Jul 03, 2019 @ 03:35:59

@Erimitus Said

chuckle

0

Edited: July 03, 2019 @ 03:36

chaski

Stalker

Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,

#39

Jul 03, 2019 @ 03:37:29

0

bob_the_fisherman

Anatidaephobic

, Angola

#40

Jul 03, 2019 @ 06:04:31

@chaski Said

Oh!!!

I just got "IT".

YOU were proving that God cannot exist!

You, God and I create two machines. One allows us to stay in a moment of time (a stasis machine). The other allows us to move backwards in time.

We enter both machines and start moving backwards at a rate of 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 years per second, with the rate multiplying by a factor of itself each second.

(Of course, "we" would only enter one of the time machines to go backwards in time as one of the "time machines" would remain in a moment of time; as a stasis machine it wouldn't "go" anywhere.)

We could do that for eternity and be no closer to a time at which God was created/formed/born.

In order for us to be at a point in time (ie., now) time must be quantifiable. If time is not quantifiable we can not be here...

Thus god is not infinite.

Brilliant! Meaningless drivel that proves nothing, but Brilliant!

Your error is assuming that a supernatural being is limited to natural properties. But of course, you already know this.

0

Edited: July 03, 2019 @ 06:04

bob_the_fisherman

Anatidaephobic

, Angola

#41

Jul 03, 2019 @ 06:10:18

@mrmhead Said

There is also a theory that the "bang" was a birth, so to speak, from another universe - maybe the outgrowth of another universe's black hole

That's true. The aim of these ideas (that are not scientific theories in any meaningful sense), is to account for anomalies that the big bang no longer accounts for. However, every one of these theories run into the same problem. If the universe is infinite, or a series of infinite universes, we can not be here. We are here, so the series can not be infinite. If it is not infinite, it requires a point at which it began.

0

mrmhead

NE, Ohio

#42

Jul 03, 2019 @ 13:19:51

@bob_the_fisherman Said

If the universe is infinite, or a series of infinite universes, we can not be here. We are here, so the series can not be infinite. If it is not infinite, it requires a point at which it began.

I fail to see the jump from "if it is infinite" to "then we are not here".

Your bottomless bucket doesn't work here.
If you dump water in the bucket, there is still water in the bucket.

Just because you can't fill the bucket doesn't mean there is no water.

0

mrmhead

NE, Ohio

#43

Jul 03, 2019 @ 14:41:14

@Erimitus Said

what is on the other side of the edge of the universe

What is there to stop the universe from being infinite?

0

chaski

Stalker

Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,

#44

Jul 03, 2019 @ 15:04:58

@bob_the_fisherman Said

Your error is assuming that a supernatural being is limited to natural properties.

I assumed nothing to the sort.

On the other hand your error is trying to use monkeys to prove that apples taste better than oranges.

0

chaski

Stalker

Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,

#45

Jul 03, 2019 @ 15:10:34

@Erimitus Said

what is on the other side of the edge of the universe

I once read a science fiction story... (long story short)....

Two guys are surveying the farthest reaches of the universe when they encounter a wall extending in all directions.

One of the guys spacewalks over to the wall, comes back and asks his partner for a quarter...

2nd guy: Why?

1st guy: There is a peep hole that reads "one quarter to see the end of the universe".

They find a quarter. The 1st guy space walks back to the wall. Inserts the quarter and looks through the peep hole. then comes back the the space ship.

2nd guy: So... what did you see?

1st guy: Nothing. It was just the end of the universe.

2nd guy:

0

Edited: July 03, 2019 @ 15:11

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