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The Border walls issue

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Wizardofozone On April 25, 2019




Zelienople, Pennsylvania
#1New Post! Apr 12, 2019 @ 03:20:26
Although I'm fairly opinionated on all things Trump, I do admit to being very confused about the two different views each party shares on border policys ...

Can anyone clarify this : If we get rid of border control, would there be any type of future Democratic intention to control the numbers from running into the millions over the years until literally American citizens of all color and nationality are just another minority ? ... Saw a Science Fiction movie where there was no need of Alien attacks as in 'War of the Worlds' ... They just looked like Humans and finally just overran us peacefully ... I admit I DO like the "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses creedo, but I'd like to keep American citizens as the majority just as I presume citizens from all other countrys would also prefer . Really on the fence about this particular debate ...
DiscordTiger On about 4 hours ago
The Queen of Random

Administrator




Emerald City, United States (g
#2New Post! Apr 12, 2019 @ 05:01:11
Trump’s wall does not equal border control.

One can be against the wall and still support controlling the borders.
Wizardofozone On April 25, 2019




Zelienople, Pennsylvania
#3New Post! Apr 12, 2019 @ 05:46:29
Ok, that's part of an answer but puts even more of an intriguing edge to the question, because I am not sure we have any type of effective technology that supercedes what I'll admit is truly a primitive yet best effective barrier we have,even in this modern day and age .... except a really long 'wall' of human security. Thanks for the response Tiger.
mrmhead On about 1 hour ago




NE, Ohio
#4New Post! Apr 12, 2019 @ 11:27:56
Who's getting rid of border control?
mrmhead On about 1 hour ago




NE, Ohio
#5New Post! Apr 12, 2019 @ 12:10:59
More than 44.5 million immigrants resided in the United States in 2017, the historical high since census records have been kept. One in seven U.S. residents is foreign born, according to 2017 American Community Survey (ACS) data. While immigrants’ current share—13.7 percent—of the overall U.S. population (325.7 million people) has been increasing since the record low marked in 1970, it remains below the historical record of 14.8 percent hit in 1890.


So it would take Hundreds of millions of immigrants before US Citizens become a minority.

Frequently Requested Statistics on Immigration and Immigrants

Not speculations, predictions, or statements tweeted by gaslight.
Eaglebauer On about 8 hours ago
Moderator



Saint Louis, Missouri
#6New Post! Apr 12, 2019 @ 12:26:41
Honestly...and I could see getting flak from either side of the aisle for this answer...I think a large part of this issue is that laws have not been enforced for years in terms of immigration and illegal aliens and now the answer being thrust out is to build an expensive wall that may or may not actually do anything and probably won't cure the disease of ineffective law enforcement.

It's no small wonder, given my background which most here know, that my answer comes from a law enforcement perspective. But for YEARS I would regularly have to coordinate with ICE for various police departments when they would find illegal immigrants and 99% of the time they would sit in a cell for a few hours only to have ICE come back with the standard "cut them loose" answer. And we'd just...let them go. Walk right out the door. Illegally. Because that's what the feds told us to do...it wasn't worth time, money, or manpower for them to enforce the law. That's a valid issue, I mean someone with a misdemeanor warrant isn't going to be extradited 100 miles by the issuing agency because it's impractical. Happens all the time.

Add to that the total deficit in repercussions for businesses who employ people illegally to save a buck and...well, why wouldn't we have a problem? The wall, even if it proved to be effective (about which I have doubts) would not do anything to solve those underlying problems. I think that is where the issue should be addressed and I think it could be solved if both sides could work together.


The answer should be a restructuring of the overall method and network of resources available to immigration agents, a more practical path to legal immigration, and serious sanctions for Americans who foster the problem for the sake of paying someone less to do a job.
white_swan53 On about 2 hours ago




n/a, New Mexico
#7New Post! Apr 12, 2019 @ 12:49:10
@Wizardofozone Said

Although I'm fairly opinionated on all things Trump, I do admit to being very confused about the two different views each party shares on border policys ...

Can anyone clarify this : If we get rid of border control, would there be any type of future Democratic intention to control the numbers from running into the millions over the years until literally American citizens of all color and nationality are just another minority ? ... Saw a Science Fiction movie where there was no need of Alien attacks as in 'War of the Worlds' ... They just looked like Humans and finally just overran us peacefully ... I admit I DO like the "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses creedo, but I'd like to keep American citizens as the majority just as I presume citizens from all other countrys would also prefer . Really on the fence about this particular debate ...



This might help in clearing up or answering some of your questions . This is ,in part the history of the border

Quote:
On an August afternoon in 1918, a mysterious man approached the U.S.-Mexico border in the bustling town of Nogales.

In 1882, the United States and Mexico formed a joint commission to resurvey, remap and remark the border.
“By the early 1920s, there are what look like permanent fences maintained by the government at most major ports of entry,” she told The Post.

Officials on both sides of the border began trying to impose order — and fees.
“When they were building fences in Nogales during the Mexican Revolution, it was a response to what was happening along the border,” she said. “That is not what is happening now. This [demand for a wall] is coming top down. It is entirely divorced from the reality on the ground.”

link
darkman666 On 48 minutes ago




Saint Louis, Missouri
#8New Post! Apr 12, 2019 @ 13:41:56
there is an old joke:

America is a land of opportunity - everybody is a tax payer.

nowdays , America is a land of opportunity - only apply to people were born in America and have the right papers to come in America.
Eaglebauer On about 8 hours ago
Moderator



Saint Louis, Missouri
#9New Post! Apr 12, 2019 @ 13:48:02
@darkman666 Said

nowdays , America is a land of opportunity - only apply to people were born in America and have the right papers to come in America.


This is actually the way it's been for quite a number of years. Yes...the land of opportunity for people who come here correctly. Why is that wrong?
Leon On about 19 hours ago




San Diego, California
#10New Post! Apr 12, 2019 @ 13:52:16
The majority of illegals come here legally.

A good chunk of the rest come illegally in ways in which a border wall wouldn’t block them.

The most effective way to curb illegal immigration? Get rid of the magnets.
Leon On about 19 hours ago




San Diego, California
#11New Post! Apr 12, 2019 @ 13:58:32
But you know what? Build the f***ing wall. The Dems should just let Trump divert defense spending and do it. We have far more important things to worry about than immigration, and at least building Trump’s baby would finally get him to shut up about it and maybe properly scapegoat real issues for our problems instead.
darkman666 On 48 minutes ago




Saint Louis, Missouri
#12New Post! Apr 12, 2019 @ 14:13:31
@Eaglebauer Said

This is actually the way it's been for quite a number of years. Yes...the land of opportunity for people who come here correctly. Why is that wrong?



that's irony to me, too. why one group of foreigners more dangerous than any other a group of foreigners. these days, anyone is can be terrorist, murder, or other things from another country.

it like president bozo is personally get revenge on mexico for the Alamo, how stupid is sound me with the border nonsense. bozo want to get re-elect, no matter what golden ring on the brass stick, he has to be on the merry-go-around to win in 2020.
chaski On about 1 hour ago
Stalker





Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#13New Post! Apr 12, 2019 @ 14:40:18
@Wizardofozone Said


Can anyone clarify this : If we get rid of border control, would there be any type of future Democratic intention to control the numbers from running into the millions over the years until literally American citizens of all color and nationality are just another minority ?


Apologies in advance for the long response.

1st - The answer to that question is: If we got rid of all border control it would lead to a lot of problems... various kinds of crimes, both national and international, crimes ranging from drugs, to illegal immigration, etc.

However your question is hypothetical and unrealistic.

Neither the Democrats nor the Republicans are suggesting that the USA get rid of border control. The idea that the Democrats want to get rid of border security is false.

What is happening is:

> Trump wants to spend many billions of dollars, in his own words, a midlevel system of border protection; a wall. Publicly available information from the U.S. Department of Homeland Security and Customs & Border Protection and Immigration and Customs Enforcement strongly indicate that a wall would be too costly and would not be effective.

> Some, though not all, Republicans seem to agree with Trump's plan.

> Democrats want a modern system of border protection, which combines more personnel with better training and better equipment, and is supported by high tech systems (sensors, cameras, etc), and in some areas border barriers.

In addition, many people are not award of the fact that border security is not just security at the USA-Mexico border. It also includes the USA-Canada border. It includes the Atlantic seaboard. It includes the Pacific Coast.
And
it includes every international air port in the USA. Also, the majority of illegal aliens that come to the USA come by what are know as ports of entry; both border entry points and international air ports. A wall would not stop anyone coming through a port of entry.



>There is one thing that would curb illegal immigration that very few people, either Democrat or Republican, are willing to do:

>>> Prosecute U.S. citizens & U.S. organizations/companies/corporations/businesses that hire illegal aliens. If this was done, there would be no jobs for illegal aliens. The vast majority would then leave.

Illegal aliens are here to make a better life. That means the need money, which means then need jobs. People in the USA are giving them those jobs. Take away the jobs, and the illegal aliens can't make better lives. In fact, they can't live at all. They would leave... on there own. Again, criminally and civilly prosecute any and all US persons who hire illegal aliens. US persons don't want to go to jail and don't want the government fining them (i.e. taking their money), so US persons would stop hiring illegal aliens. Again, that would lead to the illegal aliens leaving on there own. <<<
mrmhead On about 1 hour ago




NE, Ohio
#14New Post! Apr 12, 2019 @ 15:20:42
@Leon Said

But you know what? Build the f***ing wall. The Dems should just let Trump divert defense spending and do it. We have far more important things to worry about than immigration, and at least building Trump’s baby would finally get him to shut up about it and maybe properly scapegoat real issues for our problems instead.



No! We must do everything we can to make this administration a failure!
(Sound familiar?)
chaski On about 1 hour ago
Stalker





Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#15New Post! Apr 12, 2019 @ 15:38:04
@Leon Said

...and at least building Trump’s baby would finally get him to shut up about it and maybe properly scapegoat real issues for our problems instead.



No it wouldn't.

Nothing will ever stop Trump from talking about his wall.

We would get weekly, if not daily, reminders from him and FoxNews that...

> he built the wall (even though it wouldn't be finished for decades)...
> he beat the Libs and Dems by building the wall...
> he has finally secured our nation from MS-13 by building the wall...
> he is the greatest president ever...

> he would most likely at some point call for the wall to be named after himself.

Basically nothing will ever shut Trump up about his wall... or about anything... but especially not his wall.
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