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Heaven and Hell

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chaski On about 4 hours ago
Stalker





Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#166New Post! Jan 02, 2019 @ 20:50:17
@MisterX Said


You should read more Bible....



Warning....

I've been on TFS since 2006; 12 years.

I have been suggesting that people, especially Christians, read the bible for that entire time.

Over the years I have learned that Christians do not take kindly to being told that they should read the bible.

When you tell them to read the Bible they, apparently, think that you are either Satan or one of Satan's henchmen.
Erimitus On July 01, 2021




The mind of God, Antarctica
#167New Post! Jan 03, 2019 @ 04:28:46
@chaski Said

So you're saying that burning in hell for all eternity isn't going to be fun?





The secret to Hell is hydration.
Erimitus On July 01, 2021




The mind of God, Antarctica
#168New Post! Jan 03, 2019 @ 04:31:14
@mrmhead Said

"Fire and Worms"

Kinda sounds like my belly after Taco Bell

... wait a minute, I jokingly refer to it as Taco "Hell" ....
Are they really.. .



how do the worms survive in the fire?
Cpat92 On May 16, 2021
It's all or nothing





Lauderhill, Florida
#169New Post! Jan 03, 2019 @ 05:15:21
@chaski Said

Warning....

I've been on TFS since 2006; 12 years.

I have been suggesting that people, especially Christians, read the bible for that entire time.

Over the years I have learned that Christians do not take kindly to being told that they should read the bible.

When you tell them to read the Bible they, apparently, think that you are either Satan or one of Satan's henchmen.



Another issue is that many Christians will have their own interpretation of the passages within the Bible. From my experience I seen three pastors give sermons on the same scriptures, but had different interpretations. So while you may have a different interpretation, or the correct one, however it may be, they will disagree with you unless yours is similar to theirs.
chaski On about 4 hours ago
Stalker





Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#170New Post! Jan 03, 2019 @ 16:24:19
@Cpat92 Said

Another issue is that many Christians will have their own interpretation of the passages within the Bible.



This is true... and true in part because many (if not most) Christians don't read the bible (as in all of it). Thus they rely on someone else to tell them what the bible and specific passages of the bible say and mean.

People don't normally do with this other books.

Example: I doubt there are many people who would pick a book and just read random sections of it, then trust someone else to tell them what it means and says.

Of course this sort of thing definitely happens in school... some students will rely on others to tell him/her what the homework assignment was all about... but these students don't typically end up with a good understanding of the text book & topic nor end up with good grades.

And some people will opt to watching the movie over reading the book. We often hear, however, that the movie has strayed form the book... that the movie doesn't have all the details or is not actually the same as the book... Under the Tuscan Sun is a great example as the book and movie are really completely different stories.

Point being, if you read the book, you have a basis to know if you are being told the truth, or being told someone's version of the truth, or being told a lie....

etc.
gakINGKONG On October 18, 2022




, Florida
#171New Post! Jan 03, 2019 @ 17:02:13
@MisterX Said




Jesus explicitly spoke of Hell as a place of fire and worms. The He spoke about Hell being tossed into The Lake Of Fire, after the judgement.
You should read more Bible and refrain from opinionating. And yes, I am employing judgement.



I have come to the conclusion that God is the after-life habitat of all people after reading Hebrews 6

Jesus covers the elect from the wrath of God.

(Wrath of God = Condemnation/Final Judgement)
MisterX On August 10, 2022




Saint Petersburg,
#172New Post! Jan 03, 2019 @ 17:53:20
@Erimitus Said

X: Jesus explicitly spoke of Hell as a place of fire and worms. Then He spoke about Hell being tossed into The Lake Of Fire, after the judgement.
You should read more Bible and refrain from opinionating. And yes, I am employing judgement.

E: I never came across that quote. Do you recall the book and verse?


Here you go:

Mark 9:4 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

See Below:

@mrmhead Said


How do you toss a place?


Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

You cast it into another place, you pick it up and drop or toss it into.
Erimitus On July 01, 2021




The mind of God, Antarctica
#173New Post! Jan 03, 2019 @ 18:46:52
@chaski Said

This is true... and true in part because many (if not most) Christians don't read the bible (as in all of it). Thus they rely on someone else to tell them what the bible and specific passages of the bible say and mean.

People don't normally do with this other books.

Example: I doubt there are many people who would pick a book and just read random sections of it, then trust someone else to tell them what it means and says.

Of course this sort of thing definitely happens in school... some students will rely on others to tell him/her what the homework assignment was all about... but these students don't typically end up with a good understanding of the text book & topic nor end up with good grades.

And some people will opt to watching the movie over reading the book. We often hear, however, that the movie has strayed form the book... that the movie doesn't have all the details or is not actually the same as the book... Under the Tuscan Sun is a great example as the book and movie are really completely different stories.

Point being, if you read the book, you have a basis to know if you are being told the truth, or being told someone's version of the truth, or being told a lie....

etc.



When we read the Books we are reading someone else interpretation of someone else’s interpretation and we, in turn interpret. Going back we are interpreting interpretations of interpretations of interpretations.

Pick an interpretation you like and that is your religion.

As you say we have to read the whole in order to understand the parts.

Ultimately those who say do not know and those who know do not say.

The approach that works for me is reading several different interpretations and then formulating my own and not foisting my interpretation on others. The Best for me (maybe not for you) is to listen to what others think and not interfere. You never know, we might learn something
chaski On about 4 hours ago
Stalker





Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#174New Post! Jan 03, 2019 @ 18:47:55
@MisterX Said


Mark 9:4 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.





Is that a reference to male sexuality and virility?

mrmhead On about 16 hours ago




NE, Ohio
#175New Post! Jan 03, 2019 @ 18:52:01
I have heard that "the bible" does not actually say "hell".

Only some the varied translations of the bible made by the flawed and sinful Man define a Hell.

... so I spent a little more time and Port 80 research:

Interesting, short read
//medium.com /@BrazenChurch/ hell-a-biblical-staple-the-bible-never-actually-mentions-c28b18b1aaaa
Well, that's the URL, the "@" kind of mucks up the link.


The argument is that "Gehenna" is one of the words often translated to the word "Hell"

In fact, when Jesus spoke of “Gehenna”, it was literally a place of continuous fire as Jerusalem’s defacto trash dump, in which fires would constantly burn away whatever was not wanted inside of the city. Any type of filth, including human cadavers were thrown into this dump to burn away.

Isaiah 66 speaks of this saying “And they will go out and look on the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; the worms that eat them will not die, the fire that burns them will not be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind.”

When we look at history, we see that the Gehenna was quite literally a place of perpetual fire. We see a dump filled with so many bodies that the worms would never die from lack of sustenance. The valley contained so much trash that the bodies would burn perpetually without end.
Erimitus On July 01, 2021




The mind of God, Antarctica
#176New Post! Jan 03, 2019 @ 21:39:58
@MisterX Said

Here you go:

Mark 9:4 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

See Below:



Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

You cast it into another place, you pick it up and drop or toss it into.



I have to admit that I do not understand...
Erimitus On July 01, 2021




The mind of God, Antarctica
#177New Post! Jan 03, 2019 @ 21:41:32
@mrmhead Said

I have heard that "the bible" does not actually say "hell".

Only some the varied translations of the bible made by the flawed and sinful Man define a Hell.

... so I spent a little more time and Port 80 research:

Interesting, short read
//medium.com /@BrazenChurch/ hell-a-biblical-staple-the-bible-never-actually-mentions-c28b18b1aaaa
Well, that's the URL, the "@" kind of mucks up the link.


The argument is that "Gehenna" is one of the words often translated to the word "Hell"

In fact, when Jesus spoke of “Gehenna”, it was literally a place of continuous fire as Jerusalem’s defacto trash dump, in which fires would constantly burn away whatever was not wanted inside of the city. Any type of filth, including human cadavers were thrown into this dump to burn away.

Isaiah 66 speaks of this saying “And they will go out and look on the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; the worms that eat them will not die, the fire that burns them will not be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind.”

When we look at history, we see that the Gehenna was quite literally a place of perpetual fire. We see a dump filled with so many bodies that the worms would never die from lack of sustenance. The valley contained so much trash that the bodies would burn perpetually without end.


That is how I learned it.
MisterX On August 10, 2022




Saint Petersburg,
#178New Post! Jan 04, 2019 @ 19:44:38
@Erimitus Said

When we read the Books we are reading someone else interpretation of someone else’s interpretation and we, in turn interpret. Going back we are interpreting interpretations of interpretations of interpretations.

Pick an interpretation you like and that is your religion.

As you say we have to read the whole in order to understand the parts.

Ultimately those who say do not know and those who know do not say.

The approach that works for me is reading several different interpretations and then formulating my own and not foisting my interpretation on others. The Best for me (maybe not for you) is to listen to what others think and not interfere. You never know, we might learn something


We are not reading an interpretation of an interpretation, when we read the Bible. If we were, the Bible would not be coherent, it would just be a bunch of opinions. Every sound translation, comes out the same way, and they start by saying, "In the beginning" with Moses as the author of Genesis.
What interpretation denies that?
@mrmhead Said

I have heard that "the bible" does not actually say "hell".

Only some the varied translations of the bible made by the flawed and sinful Man define a Hell.

... so I spent a little more time and Port 80 research:

Interesting, short read
//medium.com /@BrazenChurch/ hell-a-biblical-staple-the-bible-never-actually-mentions-c28b18b1aaaa
Well, that's the URL, the "@" kind of mucks up the link.


The argument is that "Gehenna" is one of the words often translated to the word "Hell"

In fact, when Jesus spoke of “Gehenna”, it was literally a place of continuous fire as Jerusalem’s defacto trash dump, in which fires would constantly burn away whatever was not wanted inside of the city. Any type of filth, including human cadavers were thrown into this dump to burn away.

Isaiah 66 speaks of this saying “And they will go out and look on the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; the worms that eat them will not die, the fire that burns them will not be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind.”

When we look at history, we see that the Gehenna was quite literally a place of perpetual fire. We see a dump filled with so many bodies that the worms would never die from lack of sustenance. The valley contained so much trash that the bodies would burn perpetually without end.


What are you arguing FOR? I see an argument against, but what are you for? Calling it Gehenna, does not soften the blow, it does not make damnation more palatable.
Are you arguing that there is no damnation? If you are, then all you are doing is falling inot a rhetorical trap. IMHO.
mrmhead On about 16 hours ago




NE, Ohio
#179New Post! Jan 04, 2019 @ 20:36:48
@MisterX Said

We are not reading an interpretation of an interpretation, when we read the Bible. If we were, the Bible would not be coherent, it would just be a bunch of opinions. Every sound translation, comes out the same way, and they start by saying, "In the beginning" with Moses as the author of Genesis.
What interpretation denies that?


What are you arguing FOR? I see an argument against, but what are you for? Calling it Gehenna, does not soften the blow, it does not make damnation more palatable.
Are you arguing that there is no damnation? If you are, then all you are doing is falling inot a rhetorical trap. IMHO.


Each time the bible is translated into a different language, it is interpreted.

I am agnostic about god. "If" there is one, I'm highly skeptical of how man has described him. Which puts his realms and actions even further from belief or acceptance.

I'm more likely to "believe" in Karma - what goes around comes around. But that is more situational than spiritual.

As for "Hell", the argument that "It says so in the bible" is not convincing for me. That's where I was going with my previous post.


Isn't arguing FOR the existence of Heaven and Hell rhetorical as well?
Erimitus On July 01, 2021




The mind of God, Antarctica
#180New Post! Jan 04, 2019 @ 22:45:16
The Bible went from Greek to Latin to German to other languages. Each translation was an interpretation. There are currently many different versions of the Books. Each version is an interpretation made by the author.
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