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Jehovah's Witnesses - What do they really believe?

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MadCornishBiker On January 14, 2014

Banned



St Columb Road, United Kingdom
#1New Post! Mar 04, 2012 @ 13:32:21
Well, here it is, from the horses mouth so to speak.

It is a copy of the tract that first made me sit up and think, simply because I already believed most of it from my own readings in scripture, unguided by any human, as a child.


What Do They Believe?

Jehovah’s Witnesses believe in Almighty God, Jehovah, Creator of the heavens and the earth. The very existence of the intricately designed wonders in the universe surrounding us reasonably argues that a supremely intelligent and powerful Creator produced it all.

**copyright material removed
basha On June 14, 2012




Somewhere YOU wanna be!!, Unit
#2New Post! Mar 04, 2012 @ 13:40:18
I'd say that if you classed you're son as 'inferior' then you are a s***ty father.
MadCornishBiker On January 14, 2014

Banned



St Columb Road, United Kingdom
#3New Post! Mar 04, 2012 @ 13:57:52
@basha Said

I'd say that if you classed you're son as 'inferior' then you are a s***ty father.



Depends on the sense in which you use inferior.

In hierarchical terms then any son is inferior to his father, hence God's commandment for sons to be obedient to fathers at any age.

There are many different ways of being inferior, and it doesn't always mean less important. Whilst it is true that the one who became Christ was hierarchically inferior he was certainly no less important because the success of God's plan depended on him completely.

Again we come down to the ambiguity of the English language which only has one word for the many meanings of inferior.

The truly bad fathers are those who do not teach their children God's requirementsince they are leaving them to die.
PrinceMonolulu On March 13, 2012




Harlow, United Kingdom
#4New Post! Mar 04, 2012 @ 14:02:23
@MadCornishBiker Said


The truly bad fathers are those who do not teach their children God's requirementsince they are leaving them to die.



No, the true bad fathers are those who won't let their child have a blood transfusion if they need one, leaving them to die.
MadCornishBiker On January 14, 2014

Banned



St Columb Road, United Kingdom
#5New Post! Mar 04, 2012 @ 14:10:16
@PrinceMonolulu Said

No, the true bad fathers are those who won't let their child have a blood transfusion if they need one, leaving them to die.


Since that is never a medical necessity as you will find if you do the research, that never arises.

No JW will ever refuse a transfusion, for their child because they want the best for them, and medically blood is an inferior component in any transfusion.

In fact the worst fathers are the ones who actually let the doctors give them blood in a transfusion, since that is not good for their recovery or their health.

Ask Dr Denton Cooley, who was the head of the Texas Heart Institute, and a heart transplant pioneer who, after operating on JWs would no longer use blood in transfusions unless his patient insisted since he got a 7.5% better recovery rate. And that is from heart surgery!

The medical profession has been knowingly playing a confidence trick on us for years, but the new generations of surgeons are using more bloodless surgery now.
PrinceMonolulu On March 13, 2012




Harlow, United Kingdom
#6New Post! Mar 04, 2012 @ 14:13:46
Stop pretending that your beliefs have anything to do with health reasons which you and I both know isn't the case. The fact that you are trying to cover over the real reason you wont have blood transfusions is proof that you know you are wrong.
futilevoice On October 07, 2016

Deleted



, Illinois
#7New Post! Mar 04, 2012 @ 14:23:35
@MadCornishBiker Said

Depends on the sense in which you use inferior.

In hierarchical terms then any son is inferior to his father, hence God's commandment for sons to be obedient to fathers at any age.

There are many different ways of being inferior, and it doesn't always mean less important. Whilst it is true that the one who became Christ was hierarchically inferior he was certainly no less important because the success of God's plan depended on him completely.

Again we come down to the ambiguity of the English language which only has one word for the many meanings of inferior.

The truly bad fathers are those who do not teach their children God's requirementsince they are leaving them to die.


Bad fathers teach their children to base their existence on an ancient book written by politicians and crooked priests.

Bad fathers spend their days and nights trying to convert innocent people into a cult known for abusing and letting their own children die because "God wants them to and they will see them again in the New Kingdom."
basha On June 14, 2012




Somewhere YOU wanna be!!, Unit
#8New Post! Mar 04, 2012 @ 18:07:03
@MadCornishBiker Said

Since that is never a medical necessity as you will find if you do the research, that never arises.

No JW will ever refuse a transfusion, for their child because they want the best for them, and medically blood is an inferior component in any transfusion.

In fact the worst fathers are the ones who actually let the doctors give them blood in a transfusion, since that is not good for their recovery or their health.

Ask Dr Denton Cooley, who was the head of the Texas Heart Institute, and a heart transplant pioneer who, after operating on JWs would no longer use blood in transfusions unless his patient insisted since he got a 7.5% better recovery rate. And that is from heart surgery!

The medical profession has been knowingly playing a confidence trick on us for years, but the new generations of surgeons are using more bloodless surgery now.


I wonder where you got your medical degree?? Acute trauma often requires the use of blood transfusions. Different blood components serve different purposes. It has been deemed in current life threatening haemorrhage that 4 units of plasma to 1 unit of red cells is more appropriate than 5 units of red cells, so i will grant you that outcomes are improving based upon a lessed use of packed cells. But the simple fact of the matter is that the human body cannot function without Haem. Haem carries oxygen. Haem is only present in red cells, Ergo red cells are vital to survival.

And JW do and have refused transfusions of ALL blood components for both themselves and their children. I have seen it. and i have seen the Doctors fight to make these children a ward of court so that they can save them.

And how dare you generalise that anyones father is bad simply because they do not teach the bible. Your arrogance is astounding.

Bible or no bible, my father is a better man than you.
MadCornishBiker On January 14, 2014

Banned



St Columb Road, United Kingdom
#9New Post! Mar 04, 2012 @ 19:01:03
@basha Said

I wonder where you got your medical degree?? Acute trauma often requires the use of blood transfusions. Different blood components serve different purposes. It has been deemed in current life threatening haemorrhage that 4 units of plasma to 1 unit of red cells is more appropriate than 5 units of red cells, so i will grant you that outcomes are improving based upon a lessed use of packed cells. But the simple fact of the matter is that the human body cannot function without Haem. Haem carries oxygen. Haem is only present in red cells, Ergo red cells are vital to survival.

And JW do and have refused transfusions of ALL blood components for both themselves and their children. I have seen it. and i have seen the Doctors fight to make these children a ward of court so that they can save them.

And how dare you generalise that anyones father is bad simply because they do not teach the bible. Your arrogance is astounding.

Bible or no bible, my father is a better man than you.


Al a medical degree would have done for me is teach me what they want me to know, not what is right and true.

Traumatic injuries involving great deals of blood loss need a volume expander.

Can you tell me one thing, other than that which transfused blood does?

It introduces foreign DNA which immediately triggers off the immune system reducing it's ability to work on the original problem. Give your T cells two targets and you halve their efficiency.(Haemolytic reaction)

Stored blood does not carry least 24 hours often 48, by which time the body has disposed of the introduced and useless red blood cells anyway and replaced them.

There are some things which blood cannot be screened against and are therefore passed on to the recipient (My father got metastatic cancer cellos through his, and that killed him very painfully because it left him with metastatic cancer in every organ in his body, as well as his bones).

Stored blood is loaded with anti-coagulants (the only reason you get a "bottle" of liquid not jelly). The anti-coalgulants introduced then prevent the remaining original blood from clotting thus making Haemorrhage more likely and more disastrous when it happens.

There are many more problems in using blood in a transfusion, which is why the current generation of Surgeons are much more involved with bloodless surgery in all operations (google "bloodless surgery" and you will see what I mean).

None of these problems are involved when using any of the many alternative transfusion media easily available (the Japanese even developed one decades ago which carry oxygen, but I guess that one actually does would be expensive).

Ask yourself. Why would, back in the 70's, a Surgeon, and not any surgeon, but the head of the Texas Heart Institute at that as well as a pioneer in heart transplantation, actually promote bloodless surgery? The answer is simple. He started doing it because he thought someone ought to do something for JWs and found he was routinely getting a 7.5% better recovery rate with them, so he spread the practice to all his patients unless they insisted on blood being used (He used Ringers Lactate).

Just in case you are interested in Dr Cooley's credentials try this link https://www.achievement.org/autodoc/page/coo0bio-1.

While you are at it, check out

https://www.theuniversityhospital.com/bloodless/

and

https://www.watchtower.org/e/19980822/article_01.htm

Sometimes not having a degree frees you from the constraints a degree imposes, lol.
Teleologist On April 13, 2012




Phoenix,
#10New Post! Mar 07, 2012 @ 02:37:40
@MadCornishBiker Said

Since that is never a medical necessity as you will find if you do the research, that never arises.

No JW will ever refuse a transfusion, for their child because they want the best for them, and medically blood is an inferior component in any transfusion.

In fact the worst fathers are the ones who actually let the doctors give them blood in a transfusion, since that is not good for their recovery or their health.


This just goes to show how convoluted your thinking is. Here you make the bogus claim that blood is an inferior component that is always harmful and on another thread you recently claimed the Watchtower's policy of allowing JW's to take components derived from donated blood is an act of mercy. If blood is a component that is always harmful as you claim here, then on what basis can you at the same time claim it is merciful for the Watchtower Society to allow JW's to take blood components? This makes no sense whatsoever. You can't have it both ways. If, in fact, blood components are always harmful then there is nothing merciful about the Watchtower Society allowing JW's to take them. The only way it would be merciful for the Watchtower Society to allow JW's to take blood components is if taking them is beneficial.
MadCornishBiker On January 14, 2014

Banned



St Columb Road, United Kingdom
#11New Post! Mar 07, 2012 @ 08:50:15
@Teleologist Said

This just goes to show how convoluted your thinking is. Here you make the bogus claim that blood is an inferior component that is always harmful and on another thread you recently claimed the Watchtower's policy of allowing JW's to take components derived from donated blood is an act of mercy. If blood is a component that is always harmful as you claim here, then on what basis can you at the same time claim it is merciful for the Watchtower Society to allow JW's to take blood components? This makes no sense whatsoever. You can't have it both ways. If, in fact, blood components are always harmful then there is nothing merciful about the Watchtower Society allowing JW's to take them. The only way it would be merciful for the Watchtower Society to allow JW's to take blood components is if taking them is beneficial.


I am sorry, but as is often the case your reply is typical of one who has taken the party line without actually thinking about it. Thin it through a bit more deeply, especially taking the following into account.

Use of blood in a transfusion causes Haemolytic reaction. That is a given and completely unavoidable as long as blood contains DNA. Since the alternatives don't carry DNA, and therefore cannot cause Haemolytic reaction, that one factor alone makes blood the inferior transfusion medium.

When you add in the chance of infection, including Cancer as my father's case demonstrates, from transfused blood, however small that chance may be, again blood comes out as the inferior medium.

Add in the increased risk of haemorrhage because of the added anti-coagulants in blood, and that increases the inferiority of blood as a transfusion medium.

Whilst it has to be admitted that the alternatives do nothing to prevent haemorrhage, they do not promote it through containing anti-coagulants.

The only saving grace for blood is a transfusion medium is that it increases circulatory volume, which all the others do anyway, since transfused blood does not carry oxygen for at least 24, often 48 hours..

It is not a bogus claim. In 1984 one of the top Surgeons in the UK said n an article in the Guardian, "If we had to get a licence for blood as a medicine now we would fail as it would be deemed too dangerous". A very true statement.

Because it is not the permitted components that cause the dangers and problem. Haemolytic reaction is only triggered by foreign DNA which is not contained in the permitted components. The very fact the blood has been broken down into components removes the other health problems with blood.

I am not the one trying to have it both ways, nor are the JWs.

I find it interesting that in the UK Ambulances will soon be carrying blood for transfusion. Maybe because of the number of surgeons now performing operations without blood they are desperate for ways to use it. Thin about it. With muhc reduced ability to type blood on the scene of an accident the increase it the chance of sever haemolytic reaction, even fatally so, is much increased.

And they claim to put patients first. That'll be the day, it is and has always been money first reputation second and patients third as far as the health authorities are concerned. That is why in the UK medical treatment, even for fatal diseases and problems,is now called a Postcode Lottery, because the availability of drugs and treatment depends in the main on where you live!
TenaciousDave On February 11, 2022
The Anus Of Satan





Jeffrey Dahmer's Lunchbox,
#12New Post! Mar 07, 2012 @ 09:10:09
MadCornishBiker On January 14, 2014

Banned



St Columb Road, United Kingdom
#13New Post! Mar 07, 2012 @ 09:19:02



Alright don't carp on about it, lol.
Jennifer1984 On July 20, 2022
Returner and proud





Penzance, United Kingdom
#14New Post! Mar 07, 2012 @ 09:19:38
Jehovah's Witnesses - What do they really believe?


Anything their cult leaders tell them to.

Anything that will get attention.

Anything that discriminates against anyone who isn't one of them.


.
MadCornishBiker On January 14, 2014

Banned



St Columb Road, United Kingdom
#15New Post! Mar 07, 2012 @ 09:27:02
@Jennifer1984 Said

Jehovah's Witnesses - What do they really believe?


Anything their cult leaders tell them to.

Anything that will get attention.

Anything that discriminates against anyone who isn't one of them.


.



No, anything that the bible tells them, simple as that. JWs don;t discriminate, though God does, according to obedience to His purposes and of course whether people choose to go against what is natural (what we were designed for) natural or not.

People like to criticise God because of their own weakness. It's not his fault they are so weak willed.
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