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Ron Paul wants to eliminate federal student loans

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Lili On July 12, 2019
....................





Sunshine Land,
#46New Post! Oct 24, 2011 @ 17:28:45
@drman321 Said

I work with plenty of people at a very large financial firm who don't have their BAs.


Anecdotes are not equal to representative data.
drman321 On December 28, 2013




, Florida
#47New Post! Oct 24, 2011 @ 17:29:35
@jonnythan Said

We can also talk about the value of the degrees since Lili brought it up.

I'm getting my bio degree right now. I'm paying I think about $2500 this semester to take two classes.

I could just as easily learn the full content of these two classes, and pass the final exams, in 3 months of personal study with maybe 5-6 hours of tutor time. The homework is all automated online homework and the tests are all multiple-choice.

Resources? What resources?



I hear ya, I wish there was an option to just test out of college. I'm pretty sure I could work with a tutor for a few months and pass whatever test they put in front of me, would have saved me thousands of dollars and a few years of my life.
jonnythan On August 02, 2014
Bringer of rad mirth


Deleted



Here and there,
#48New Post! Oct 24, 2011 @ 17:30:22
@Lili Said

I agree with that. It would be awesome if getting a degree basically meant passing some tests to prove what you know. That would be a whole hell of a lot less expensive, and accessible to everyone.


Now we're reaching the same page, from different sides of the book: the education system is sub-optimal.

The federal government is enabling enormous amounts of waste at the undergraduate level and stiffing new grads and dropouts with the bill. Undergrad degrees should never cost as much as they do, anywhere - and that is largely thanks to the federal government happily letting them all drink from the guaranteed money fountain.
someone_else On August 30, 2012
Not a dude.


Deleted



American Alps, Washington
#49New Post! Oct 24, 2011 @ 17:31:31
@Lili Said

That doesn't matter. Right now, companies are requiring people have a degree, any degree, to even look at their resume. When the economy tanks, they've got to have some way to filter out all the applicants. Right now, they're doing that with BAs.



That's been going on for a while now. The "or equivalent experience" has gradually slipped out of the qualifications.
Lili On July 12, 2019
....................





Sunshine Land,
#50New Post! Oct 24, 2011 @ 17:32:47
@jonnythan Said

That's a fantastic point. What's so much better about a $160,000 BS in psychology from Duke than a $16,000 BS in Social Services when applying for a job unrelated to either of those fields?

The entire point of all of this is that the cost of attending private/independent colleges is skyrocketing out of control, thanks in large part to federal government interference. An undergraduate degree should not cost almost $200,000. They're just not worth that much and they don't require that much money to teach/learn.


The federal government already limited how much you can borrow for tuition. For freshman it's $9500. No one is paying their way through Duke on Federal students loans. The vast majority of that is coming from private loans.
drman321 On December 28, 2013




, Florida
#51New Post! Oct 24, 2011 @ 17:32:56
@Lili Said

Anecdotes are not equal to representative data.



Maybe not, and I'm not arguing that it isn't easier to get a job if you have a BA, but don't pretend like your resume gets tossed out if you don't have one. At least around here, there are plenty of good jobs for folks who have a decent resume and a high school diploma.
DorkySupergirl On November 02, 2017




, Canada
#52New Post! Oct 24, 2011 @ 17:35:18
I am not familiar with American student loans. You apply for a loan from the federal government and then you pay it back upon graduation. Can you go to the bank directly and borrow from the bank?
Lili On July 12, 2019
....................





Sunshine Land,
#53New Post! Oct 24, 2011 @ 17:36:57
@jonnythan Said

Now we're reaching the same page, from different sides of the book: the education system is sub-optimal.

The federal government is enabling enormous amounts of waste at the undergraduate level and stiffing new grads and dropouts with the bill. Undergrad degrees should never cost as much as they do, anywhere - and that is largely thanks to the federal government happily letting them all drink from the guaranteed money fountain.



Actually that was one reason I chose the school I'm at now, it's all online, and the school is non-profit. I think the traditional school structure is horribly inefficient and inflexible.
drman321 On December 28, 2013




, Florida
#54New Post! Oct 24, 2011 @ 17:40:17
@DorkySupergirl Said

I am not familiar with American student loans. You apply for a loan from the federal government and then you pay it back upon graduation. Can you go to the bank directly and borrow from the bank?



Yes which is why Lili's complaint is coming across as a bit disingenuous. If Ron Paul got his way and did away with federal student loans you could still get student loans from banks the same as you can now.
Lili On July 12, 2019
....................





Sunshine Land,
#55New Post! Oct 24, 2011 @ 17:42:00
@DorkySupergirl Said

I am not familiar with American student loans. You apply for a loan from the federal government and then you pay it back upon graduation. Can you go to the bank directly and borrow from the bank?



You used to be able to, but Obama shifted all students loans to federal. Basically just eliminated the middleman (private banks). From my understanding, private banks wouldn't loan to students because students wouldn't pay it back (high risk), so the federal program required that private banks provide student loans that were guaranteed by the government. But then student debt got out of control, and in an attempt to reduce debt, Obama made all student loans come directly from the federal government in order to reduce interest rates for students.
Lili On July 12, 2019
....................





Sunshine Land,
#56New Post! Oct 24, 2011 @ 17:43:58
@drman321 Said

Yes which is why Lili's complaint is coming across as a bit disingenuous. If Ron Paul got his way and did away with federal student loans you could still get student loans from banks the same as you can now.



If it weren't for the federal programs, private banks wouldn't grant loans to students in the first place. They only did it because of federal involvement.
boobagins On August 03, 2013
SPICY HOT TAMALES





Astral Weeks, Florida
#57New Post! Oct 24, 2011 @ 17:44:49
@someone_else Said

That's been going on for a while now. The "or equivalent experience" has gradually slipped out of the qualifications.



Mainly because the norm is shifting. It used to be that a bachelor's degree was all you needed and was the norm. But more and more people are willing to do the same job for less money, and this was in part due to all the "immigrants are stealing our jobs" outcry that occurred in the 70's, 80's, 90's. And that's part of the thing, it's easy to say that it's all because of tuition prices etc., but the truth is that it's just not. Every other part of the economy touches why the norm is shifting. Now, the norm is a master's degree, in the last five years, It looks like it's shifting towards the norm becoming a PhD. You can't blame them though, if more and more are getting bachelor's degree, why would you go for less, or anything lower?

The fact of the matter is, student federal loans are one of the leading factors in why our tuition rates are steadily going up. Instead of increasing by the standard inflation rate over the years, it's twice that, if not slightly more. Getting rid of the federal loan programs will help stabilize costs and bring it down.

https://inflationdata.com/inflation/inflation_articles/Education_Inflation.asp
Lili On July 12, 2019
....................





Sunshine Land,
#58New Post! Oct 24, 2011 @ 17:46:02
@drman321 Said

Maybe not, and I'm not arguing that it isn't easier to get a job if you have a BA, but don't pretend like your resume gets tossed out if you don't have one. At least around here, there are plenty of good jobs for folks who have a decent resume and a high school diploma.



Yes, there are high paying jobs that don't require a degree. But we can't *all* be salespeople.
DorkySupergirl On November 02, 2017




, Canada
#59New Post! Oct 24, 2011 @ 17:47:21
@drman321 Said

Yes which is why Lili's complaint is coming across as a bit disingenuous. If Ron Paul got his way and did away with federal student loans you could still get student loans from banks the same as you can now.


Most people who go to university are 18 years old, fresh out of high school and do not have credit established. I live in Canada but the banks here, they only typically give loans to people who have established credit and this established credit has to be good credit.

I am not sure how an 18 year old would have established good credit. They would probably need a cosigner. Its not like they have any property to put up against a loan.




@Lili Said

You used to be able to, but Obama shifted all students loans to federal. Basically just eliminated the middleman (private banks). From my understanding, private banks wouldn't loan to students because students wouldn't pay it back (high risk), so the federal program required that private banks provide student loans that were guaranteed by the government. But then student debt got out of control, and in an attempt to reduce debt, Obama made all student loans come directly from the federal government in order to reduce interest rates for students.


If one can only get a student loan via federal government, and this is done away with, students are going to university how then? Not everyone has parents that pay for it and some degrees are so expensive that working three jobs is not going to pay for it.

I get that it will cut down the federal budget spending and all but people need student loans.

In Canada, if you need a student loan, you get from province and federal government. If if America does away with federal student loan, you can get a state student loan, the way we have provincial student loans?
someone_else On August 30, 2012
Not a dude.


Deleted



American Alps, Washington
#60New Post! Oct 24, 2011 @ 17:50:35
@boobagins Said

Mainly because the norm is shifting. It used to be that a bachelor's degree was all you needed and was the norm. But more and more people are willing to do the same job for less money, and this was in part due to all the "immigrants are stealing our jobs" outcry that occurred in the 70's, 80's, 90's. And that's part of the thing, it's easy to say that it's all because of tuition prices etc., but the truth is that it's just not. Every other part of the economy touches why the norm is shifting. Now, the norm is a master's degree, in the last five years, It looks like it's shifting towards the norm becoming a PhD. You can't blame them though, if more and more are getting bachelor's degree, why would you go for less, or anything lower?

The fact of the matter is, student federal loans are one of the leading factors in why our tuition rates are steadily going up. Instead of increasing by the standard inflation rate over the years, it's twice that, if not slightly more. Getting rid of the federal loan programs will help stabilize costs and bring it down.

https://inflationdata.com/inflation/inflation_articles/Education_Inflation.asp



While I can understand that, it's the lack of accepting equivalent experience in the field as an alternative. I can understand it for some fields of work, but not all.
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