The Forum Site - Join the conversation
Forums:
Politics

Ron Paul wants to eliminate federal student loans

Reply to Topic
AuthorMessage
Pages: 1 2 3 ...6 7 8 · >>
Lili On July 12, 2019
....................





Sunshine Land,
#1New Post! Oct 24, 2011 @ 16:24:23
He thinks students should all "work through school". https://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gD7yN5g1JU-eMa5Nwa25M4komf0Q?docId=87b456055dc5415494fa2bf86d83b5e2

He attributes the high cost of education to the fact that, because everyone can easily cover the cost of tuition by just borrowing it, colleges and universities have no reason to keep their prices down.

However, his plan inherently must involve fewer people being able to go to college in order to drive prices down.

If it weren't for students loans I wouldn't be able to be getting a degree right now, I'm a single mom with two kids, working through college isn't an option for me. A significantly fewer number of people would be able to get a degree if student loans aren't available. The hardest hit professions would be the ones with the highest tuitions, such a doctors. We already have a shortage of doctors, which already makes getting proper care harder to get (doctors in the ER working 20 hour shifts becoming more prone to making mistakes in their care due to decreased mental function from a lack of sleep, doctors in medical practices who have patients waiting weeks for an appointment) This isn't a disputed problem, and Ron Paul's plan would make it worse.

The wealth gap in this country would widen as the poor would be less able or likely to afford an education while the better-off would still be able to afford it.
jonnythan On August 02, 2014
Bringer of rad mirth


Deleted



Here and there,
#2New Post! Oct 24, 2011 @ 16:28:33
Haven't we been dealing with university tuition spiraling out of control for decades now?

Has anyone wondered why that is? It's not because professors are making so much more money, or classrooms are just that much better stocked than they were, because they're not. More and more classes are being taught by associate professors and TAs than ever before.

Universities have been getting more and more guaranteed money in the form of federal loans. What do organizations do with guaranteed money? Spend every last dime and figure out how to get more.

I'm paying my way through college right now, without federal loans.
drman321 On December 28, 2013




, Florida
#3New Post! Oct 24, 2011 @ 16:29:04
@Lili Said

He thinks students should all "work through school". https://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gD7yN5g1JU-eMa5Nwa25M4komf0Q?docId=87b456055dc5415494fa2bf86d83b5e2

He attributes the high cost of education to the fact that, because everyone can easily cover the cost of tuition by just borrowing it, colleges and universities have no reason to keep their prices down.

However, his plan inherently must involve fewer people being able to go to college in order to drive prices down.

If it weren't for students loans I wouldn't be able to be getting a degree right now, I'm a single mom with two kids, working through college isn't an option for me. A significantly fewer number of people would be able to get a degree if student loans aren't available. The hardest hit professions would be the ones with the highest tuitions, such a doctors. We already have a shortage of doctors, which already makes getting proper care harder to get (doctors in the ER working 20 hour shifts becoming more prone to making mistakes in their care due to decreased mental function from a lack of sleep, doctors in medical practices who have patients waiting weeks for an appointment) This isn't a disputed problem, and Ron Paul's plan would make it worse.

The wealth gap in this country would widen as the poor would be less able or likely to afford an education while the better-off would still be able to afford it.



He is talking about federal student loans, not private loans. If he had his way you would still be able to go to college, it would just cost a bit more in the long run.
Lili On July 12, 2019
....................





Sunshine Land,
#4New Post! Oct 24, 2011 @ 16:37:13
@jonnythan Said

Haven't we been dealing with university tuition spiraling out of control for decades now?

Has anyone wondered why that is? It's not because professors are making so much more money, or classrooms are just that much better stocked than they were, because they're not. More and more classes are being taught by associate professors and TAs than ever before.

Universities have been getting more and more guaranteed money in the form of federal loans. What do organizations do with guaranteed money? Spend every last dime and figure out how to get more.

I'm paying my way through college right now, without federal loans.


I agree that tuition is ridiculously expensive, but is making it so that fewer people are able to attend college the best solution to that? Surely there is another way to get colleges to reduce their tuition.

I'm glad you are able to work your way through college, but not everyone is able to do that. Should the poor not have the same access to education as the better off? Think of the ramifications of that.


@drman321 Said

He is talking about federal student loans, not private loans. If he had his way you would still be able to go to college, it would just cost a bit more in the long run.


He argues that education accounts for a ridiculous proportion of the debt that people carry. So I doubt he's cool with it "costing a bit more" just to get the cost out of the government arena.
restoreone On May 23, 2020




, Ohio
#5New Post! Oct 24, 2011 @ 16:37:15
In a way I think this would be good. I think about the students that take out 50 g in loans for a job that pays 30 g a year not a good investment IMO.
Cpat92 On August 16, 2020
It's all or nothing





Lauderhill, Florida
#6New Post! Oct 24, 2011 @ 16:40:47
Aren't they already going to get rid of unsubsidized loans? Why would he try to get rid of all loans? Even with loans some students still have to work through school.
jonnythan On August 02, 2014
Bringer of rad mirth


Deleted



Here and there,
#7New Post! Oct 24, 2011 @ 16:41:03
@Lili Said

I agree that tuition is ridiculously expensive, but is making it so that fewer people are able to attend college the best solution to that? Surely there is another way to get colleges to reduce their tuition.

I'm glad you are able to work your way through college, but not everyone is able to do that. Should the poor not have the same access to education as the better off? Think of the ramifications of that.

He argues that education accounts for a ridiculous proportion of the debt that people carry. So I doubt he's cool with it "costing a bit more" just to get the cost out of the government arena.


What's your better solution?
drman321 On December 28, 2013




, Florida
#8New Post! Oct 24, 2011 @ 16:45:39
@Lili Said

He argues that education accounts for a ridiculous proportion of the debt that people carry. So I doubt he's cool with it "costing a bit more" just to get the cost out of the government arena.



Unless I am mistaken he has advocated just that, if you cannot pay for college on your own or through scholarships then do so with private loans.

It is possible.

I did it. I didn't take a single government loan, mine were all private.

I think your complaint here that they may do away with student loans (likely as the budget continues to tighten) is a perfect example of that sense of entitlement you always hear people talking about.

You are not entitled to higher education, nor are you entitled to a discount to finance it. If cuts need to be made that isn't a bad place to start as the private mechanism is already in place to meet the demand.
Lili On July 12, 2019
....................





Sunshine Land,
#9New Post! Oct 24, 2011 @ 16:46:09
@jonnythan Said

What's your better solution?


I didn't say I had one, I just don't think this is it.

Maybe (just a thought off the top of my head), only schools with tuition that's lower than a certain threshold would qualify for student loans? Like below a set percentage of the average wage or something.
jonnythan On August 02, 2014
Bringer of rad mirth


Deleted



Here and there,
#10New Post! Oct 24, 2011 @ 16:50:06
@Lili Said

I didn't say I had one, I just don't think this is it.

Maybe (just a thought off the top of my head), only schools with tuition that's lower than a certain threshold would qualify for student loans? Like below a set percentage of the average wage or something.


Well maybe you can answer why it's the federal government's business to hand out so much basically free money to teenagers that they turn into 20-somethings with mountains of debt to the federal government?

States already run public universities with low tuition rates. They also run community colleges with even lower ones.

The federal government had no business giving so much money to teenagers that they're now in a trillion dollars of debt in the first place, and thanks to that boneheaded decision university tuition rates have risen to astronomic levels.
Lili On July 12, 2019
....................





Sunshine Land,
#11New Post! Oct 24, 2011 @ 16:52:04
@drman321 Said

Unless I am mistaken he has advocated just that, if you cannot pay for college on your own or through scholarships then do so with private loans.

It is possible.

I did it. I didn't take a single government loan, mine were all private.

I think your complaint here that they may do away with student loans (likely as the budget continues to tighten) is a perfect example of that sense of entitlement you always hear people talking about.

You are not entitled to higher education, nor are you entitled to a discount to finance it. If cuts need to be made that isn't a bad place to start as the private mechanism is already in place to meet the demand.


The point isn't some huffy "entitlement" argument. The point is that society as a whole is more stable when the wealth gap is reduced, when there is less poverty, fewer people on government assistance, etc. The government may reduce their loan costs, but they'll increase their welfare costs. And if they reduce welfare payments too, they'll increase their "bailouts" when no one can afford to pay off their credit cards. They'll get hit with it somewhere down the line. So they'll end up paying for it one way or another, but in the case of education at least society as a whole will be more stable.
drman321 On December 28, 2013




, Florida
#12New Post! Oct 24, 2011 @ 16:54:17
@Lili Said

The point isn't some huffy "entitlement" argument. The point is that society as a whole is more stable when the wealth gap is reduced, when there is less poverty, fewer people on government assistance, etc. The government may reduce their loan costs, but they'll increase their welfare costs. And if they reduce welfare payments too, they'll increase their "bailouts" when no one can afford to pay off their credit cards. They'll get hit with it somewhere down the line. So they'll end up paying for it one way or another, but in the case of education at least society as a whole will be more stable.



That doesn't go away. The entitlement comes from the notion (that you appear to have) that the federal government should subsidize the interest rates on your student loans.

If the government gets out of the student loan business you will still be able to get loans, the interest rates will just be a few basis points higher.
Lili On July 12, 2019
....................





Sunshine Land,
#13New Post! Oct 24, 2011 @ 16:54:20
@jonnythan Said

Well maybe you can answer why it's the federal government's business to hand out so much basically free money to teenagers that they turn into 20-somethings with mountains of debt to the federal government?

States already run public universities with low tuition rates. They also run community colleges with even lower ones.

The federal government had no business giving so much money to teenagers that they're now in a trillion dollars of debt in the first place, and thanks to that boneheaded decision university tuition rates have risen to astronomic levels.



The federal government didn't always do that, why do you think they started?
jonnythan On August 02, 2014
Bringer of rad mirth


Deleted



Here and there,
#14New Post! Oct 24, 2011 @ 16:55:25
@Lili Said

The point isn't some huffy "entitlement" argument. The point is that society as a whole is more stable when the wealth gap is reduced, when there is less poverty, fewer people on government assistance, etc. The government may reduce their loan costs, but they'll increase their welfare costs. And if they reduce welfare payments too, they'll increase their "bailouts" when no one can afford to pay off their credit cards. They'll get hit with it somewhere down the line. So they'll end up paying for it one way or another, but in the case of education at least society as a whole will be more stable.


It's not a zero sum game like that. Nothing works in so much isolation. The universities have raised tuition year after year in large part because the federal loans have enabled them to get away with it.
Lili On July 12, 2019
....................





Sunshine Land,
#15New Post! Oct 24, 2011 @ 16:55:45
@drman321 Said

That doesn't go away. The entitlement comes from the notion (that you appear to have) that the federal government should subsidize the interest rates on your student loans.

If the government gets out of the student loan business you will still be able to get loans, the interest rates will just be a few basis points higher.


I'm not talking about interest rates. Where did I say anything about interest rates? Ron Paul's argument is that people shouldn't borrow in order to get through school.
Reply to Topic<< Previous Topic | Next Topic >>
Pages: 1 2 3 ...6 7 8 · >>

1 browsing (0 members - 1 guest)

Quick Reply
Politics Forum - Some Rudeness Allowed

      
Subscribe to topic prefs

Similar Topics
    Forum Topic Last Post Replies Views
New posts   College Life
Thu Aug 23, 2012 @ 15:41
4 604
New posts   Politics
Tue May 01, 2012 @ 11:04
0 433
New posts   Politics
Wed Apr 13, 2011 @ 10:56
58 4047
New posts   College Life
Fri Apr 25, 2008 @ 12:25
9 734
New posts   Rants & Raves
Sat Aug 12, 2006 @ 09:30
1 429