Ok, this "Bailout" Deal. Let's figure this out.

Let me see if I've got this right...

1. People applied for loans to buy houses -- they really could not safely afford.
2. Lenders helped them get the loans -- by allowing them to falsify, exaggerate, etc, the loan apps so they would qualify.
3. The lenders obviously did this to get the commission.
4. The lenders sold these notes to bigger companies for collection?
5. People lost their jobs and have been unable to make their payments.
6. The bigger agencies who bought the notes are not getting their monthly expected income from these loan notes they bought, and are now in financial trouble themselves?

Ok, It's #7 I think I'm stuck on...

7a. The government wants to buy up these notes and I guess the home-owner will then owe the government the money?
or...
7b. The government wants to just hand over 700 billion to these bigger loan agencies... to help the big money guys survive,-- while people are still not able to pay their mortgages?

In either case (of 7), how does this help anyone but the big money people?

If people are still losing their jobs, they still won't be able to make their house payments... so what good is that?

These big money guys will just own a bunch of big old vacant houses.
And people will just all start moving into the streets... right?

The only way to solve the problem, is to find a way to get these people back to work, so they can make their payments.

Why doesn't the government hire them to... do something... in their communities... and give them jobs for that 700 Billion dollars, instead?

How do we get the jobs back to the USA?

NAFTA allowed the shipping of many of our jobs to other countries. I'm a victim of that one, for sure.

I was in Canada last year, and I could not believe all the huge companies and factories and jobs there were, right on the other side of the border.

Companies that used to be in the US, moved to Canada. Why?
Companies that used to be in the US, moved to Mexico. Why?

Ok, well that's my take on the situation. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I just don't understand how helping out these big-money guys -- is going to help any of the homeowners pay their mortgages -- ever. They will still be losing their homes in huge numbers.

The homeowners need jobs.

You don't suppose the guys in the goverment who want this bail out have huge financial interests in these big finance companies, themselves, and are just trying to bail out themselves... before the rest of us all go bankrupt -- do you?

Well, see you under the bridge... (BYOB) Bring Your Own Box.

Survival of the Fittest, here we come...

It's all a deal where the central banks end up owning the private banks.

The march of globalization continues.

well, i'm not the most informed person on the bail out plan, but i do know one thing: everything the government does is for the benefit of those who have lobbied for the decision. the government as a whole is a puppet of those who can afford it.

but, i'll play devil's advocate. let's say that the bail out plan benefits the big business interest because if the owners of everything have more money, they will, in turn be able to create more jobs for those of us less fortunate than they who owe them money.

or maybe 7b makes the government pay them the money for the loans on behalf of the ppl who owe the money and the ppl themselves will not owe any money to the banks who loaned it to them because the government paid already...

i'm not a financial expert but i'll look it up and come back to this forum better informed.

But how does this in any way help homeowners?
Those people are still going to lose their houses.
The loans are still not going to be paid.

Will we have a nation of vacant houses, with people living in the streets?

I understand the march for "globalization" -- yes there are some mighty evil, power-hungry, greedy people up there at the top of the pyramid -- who truly seek to "rule the world" at some point, but that's still gonna take a lot more years.

This is an immediate problem for the USA to prevent it from going into a depression.

I think this "bailout" isn't going to help anyone but the guys at the top of the pyramid, again, and the people are still going to lose their homes, and a depression is still going to happen.

The little people need jobs.
So the government is helping out the billionaires?

Sounds to me like the government is deliberately going to cause a depression, and eventually wipe out the little guys. They won't have health care, they won't have proper housing, they won't have proper food, they'll be too broke. So they'll all die of sickness or violence...

Watch the dominos.... this bailout is not going to help anyone but the rich. That's what I'm beginning to think, anyway.

your absolutely right, of course. since when does the government care about the little people? since its very beginning this country has only looked out for its most fortunate, from the declaration of independence, to the emancipation proclamation. although it only seems like it's in the best interest of the little ppl, its really not. let's look at the facts:

the declaration of independence and the constitution were signed by the top doggs of the time. the beaurocracy of the 1700s. you have george washington, thomas edison, thomas jefferson, ben franklin: all rich white men seeking to benefit all the rich white men who, just like them, didn't want to pay taxes to britain. for example, in the original constitution, rich white men were the only ones who could vote because everyone was subject to a literacy test and only rich white men could afford education. it seemed like it was the best thing in the interest of the ppl that those who could choose the president should at least be literate. but it was all a scam to benefit the beaurocracy.

even the emancipation proclamation was not signed to benefit the slaves, but to punish the southerners for their attempts to cecede from the union. if you take a look at it, it says that all slaves in the SOUTH would be freed. and this was declared because it would hurt the south and it's agricultural economy and it wouldn't hurt the north at all. it had nothing to do with benefiting the little guy, in this case, the blacks. it had to do with punishing the south.

It's all a scam. the government doesn't give a crap about us. they only care about the ppl who are rich enough to buy their say in the government's policies.

And exactly where has all this bailout money suddenly come from?

In reality it doesn't exist (I realise that I'm speaking a sort of blasphemy), all they have done is send some numbers to the banks, not a whole truckfull of notes and coins. The central bank has just promised to honour any debts, but they can do that anytime for any amount just by saying they have the funds, they haven't actually got a pot to piss in, but so long as we all play along and pretend that they have untold riches the game can continue.

Need a hundred squillion billion quadrillion dollars?

"Sure, we'll send the money, just tell us how many zeros that is and it's on the way."

It's all just a game that bankers play. "I promise to pay the bearer"
It really should read "I promise to promise the bearer."

it's called deficit spending. the government spends money it doesn't have and then winds up owing itself money until the taxpayers eventually pay it off. although they won't ever be able to pay it off. the nation just sinks deeper into debt because the more money the government spends, the less value the dollar has. and ppl start thinking that the prices of everything are going up, when it's really just the value of the dollar that's going down... i'm not a financial expert but i guess that's the best way to explain it. i hope this helped.

The problem is people losing their jobs, and not being able to pay their debts.

Why are they losing their jobs?

Two reasons: Higher oil prices, and Jobs being sent to other countries.

Rising oil prices is half the problem:

*Rising oil prices causes the cost of everything to go up.
*It costs a lot more money to deliver the goods to the market.
*People have to spend more money on oil and heating than for goods.
*People buying less goods, causes many factories to have to cut their production.
*Less production means lay-offs.
*Lay-offs create people not being able to pay their bills.

So the source of the employment-loss problem is two-fold.
*Rising oil prices, and
*Jobs being moved to other nations for various reasons.

Creating jobs for people is more important than bailing out the big finance companies.

Lowering oil prices is also crucial.

Well that's what I think, anyway.

Funny how the politicians never do the "What caused this..." formula -- to get to the root cause of a problem.
That's how you fix a problem, find the root cause.

This "Bailout" thing is merely plugging the dam. dam.

they don't care about the little ppl. that's the bottom line. and it's sad, but it's true.

I prefer to use the phrase "Running on Empty".

Shall we do some paranoid speculation? If the same speculators that caused the recent oil price hike, are the same ones who caused the downfall of the private banks...what's their next move? And why are they using tactics they know! will bring about a 1930s type depression?

well, most ppl don't know this, but in the u.s. the margin between the rich and the poor is wider than it's been since the great depression. fortunately there are ways to avoid a depression of the same nature or that would be brought about by the same problems, but in the end, you might be right but i hope your wrong.

however, i find that if the government would simply allow the ppl to spend their own money in a purely capitalistic fashion ppl wouldn't be losing their homes to banks because they would have more money to save for a situation like this where they might lose their jobs or whatever. and the answer that the government gives us for taking our money is that in the end they're doing it to benefit us. but how is all the s.security money and the federal taxes and even the mortgage taxes that those homeowners paid, how is it helping them now?? it's not. it's helping the banks. and if the government had not forcibly taken all that money from those ppl who worked for it, they would have been able to rid themselves of this proble, and these types of problems would not exist by such gargantuan levels...

They don't want a solution. They want a way to benefit from the benefit of their rich criminal friedns on Wall Street. Think about it. That's the only way to explain why we're in such a fix and the solutions don't help us. They can't ALL be stupid. They just don't want to fix the problem...

I don't want to think these thoughts, but I can't escape them with all the evidence before us.

I truly think they are trying to cause a "survival of the fittest" situation. They will do fine, they have their places to hide, while the rest of us scramble for whatever it takes to survive.. and what do they care?

So what if millions of us go down -- can't make it, die homeless, in poverty, can't buy food... why should they care? They can all retreat to their private homes and islands while we wipe each other out, trying to survive.

They have their cellars full of food, their hidden caches of oil, generators, comfortable hidden mansions in the hills... the rest of us are screwed.

So what if it takes ten years? It truly seems they are intentionally trying to destroy the "poor", and this "bailout" thing is just to get them more money, while we think it's some saving grace, and in the end, we will have been tricked into 3rd world country poverty. All of us.

Sounds pretty pessimistic, but this is what I think they are up to.

The key is -- we have to outsmart them

but, don't you see?? it's no longer about survival of the fittest. i wish it were that way. the government would let us keep our taxes and social security and all that, and everyone would do with it what they had to. like during the 1800s. there was never a time in american history that brought forth more progress in this country than in the pre-depression world we used to live in. i guarantee you that if the government would cease to collect all these taxes from us in an 'attempt to help those in need' there would be a far less percentage of ppl in need. but that's not gonna happen.

so if 'survival of the fittest' were to go into effect today it would hold no merit because we've been getting screwed since the great depression and they've been stealing our money since then. imagine how much they must have saved up by now. just imagine. lets say 20 to 30 percent of every american dollar since the great depression that has been 'used to benefit those in need' slammed into their bank accounts. don't believe me? take a walk outside and count how many homeless ppl you see on the street. if you really think the government's doing anything to help 'those in need' ask those ppl they'll tell you. i'd say about 50 percent of all that money is pocketed. just imagine how much money that is...

so the table is tilted in the favor of the big business interests and if they were to leave us to fend for ourselves, we couldn't cuz they have our money. if they're gonna leave us to fend for ourselves at least give us our money back you sons a b****es! i feel drunk. i haven't gone to bed yet so this might seem like mindless rambling but think about it...it's really not...