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On July 01, 2021 Erimitus


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The mind of God, Antarctica
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Ethics
September 18, 2017 @ 09:41:20 am

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Erimitus

New Post! September 18, 2017 @ 09:42:14 am
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Is the murder of an innocent child ethically wrong?


gakINGKONG

New Post! September 19, 2017 @ 11:35:53 am
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It depends. If the system of ethics allows for the killing of an innocent child, then that act would not be unethical.

The point here is that "ethics" could be anything.

I live in a country which historically frowns upon such thing and I'm happy this is so.


Erimitus

New Post! September 19, 2017 @ 01:34:23 pm
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@GAKingKong Said

It depends. If the system of ethics allows for the killing of an innocent child, then that act would not be unethical.

The point here is that "ethics" could be anything.

I live in a country which historically frowns upon such thing and I'm happy this is so.


That which is (or is NOT) ethical is dependent on contemporary regional standards. Good point. Thank you.


newcarscent7

New Post! September 20, 2017 @ 01:35:45 am
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My mistake. In that case, I agree with the former.


bob_the_fisherman

Anatidaephobic

New Post! September 20, 2017 @ 03:30:38 am
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@Erimitus Said

Is the murder of an innocent child ethically wrong?


Taking that statement on face value you would probably argue yes, it is always ethically wrong to murder a child, in that murder is generally used in relation to someone committing a specific form of crime.

If you asked is it always ethically wrong to kill an innocent child the answer may well be different.


Erimitus

New Post! September 20, 2017 @ 07:55:30 am
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@bob_the_fisherman Said

Taking that statement on face value you would probably argue yes, it is always ethically wrong to murder a child, in that murder is generally used in relation to someone committing a specific form of crime.

If you asked is it always ethically wrong to kill an innocent child the answer may well be different.



Murder is a crime

Crimes are ethically wrong

Murder is ethically wrong.

There are laws

Not following the law is a crime

Crimes are ethically wrong

Here comes the but...

But laws can be ethically wrong

Not obeying an ethically wrong law would be ethical yet a crime.

and so on...


Erimitus

New Post! September 20, 2017 @ 08:04:54 am
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When I started this thread I was thinking of Abraham and his boy and wondering why God would ask Abe to do something unethical like murder.


Electric_Banana

New Post! September 20, 2017 @ 09:59:12 am
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@Erimitus Said




When I started this thread I was thinking of Abraham and his boy and wondering why God would ask Abe to do something unethical like murder.



Only through fear can one find respect and loyalty
*unfortunately I've discovered this much is true*
If you fear the power of God so much as to murder your child
then God can rest easy that there won't be any co-operation issues.

I don't entirely understand the Bible - some of the parables hold important insights but are often misinterpreted to sound diabolical

While other examples sound like an organization was using brainwashing to submit the small society around them into a Totalitarian situation.


Erimitus

New Post! September 20, 2017 @ 03:59:31 pm
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In this context I have been thinking of fear and respect as having the same meaning.

It is only through fear that one can find loyalty.

It is only through respect that one can find loyalty.

Yet God (as I understand it) wants Love.

EB: If you fear the power of God so much as to murder your child
then God can rest easy that there won't be any co-operation issues.

E: So (if I understand you correctly) God was testing Abraham had.

E: Assuming Abraham had free will; it could be that God (though omniscient) did not know what Abe was going to do. If God did know what Abraham was going to do then the whole exercise was pointless.

EB: While other examples sound like an organization was using brainwashing to submit the small society around them into a Totalitarian situation.

E: Well yeah. (I believe) whole point of the bible was to maintain the master slave status quo by having an omniscient, omnipresent God to be loved, feared and respected.

E: What do you think?


bob_the_fisherman

Anatidaephobic

New Post! September 20, 2017 @ 11:43:44 pm
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@Erimitus Said

Murder is a crime

Crimes are ethically wrong

Murder is ethically wrong.

There are laws

Not following the law is a crime

Crimes are ethically wrong

Here comes the but...

But laws can be ethically wrong

Not obeying an ethically wrong law would be ethical yet a crime.

and so on...



Disobeying a bad law is ethically right, simply because morally praiseworthy behaviour does not take account of opprobrium that right action entails.

However, not all laws are ethically wrong.

In the case of murder for example, murder implies the taking of an innocent life without justification. As a rule this would be considered an ethically wrong act. An ethically good act would be one that increasees overall good, or, decreases overall harm, or, is an act that we would want all people to follow at all times or something similar. Killing innocent people for no reason is not generally considered a good.


Erimitus

New Post! September 21, 2017 @ 09:51:49 am
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@bob_the_fisherman Said

Disobeying a bad law is ethically right, simply because morally praiseworthy behaviour does not take account of opprobrium that right action entails.

However, not all laws are ethically wrong.

In the case of murder for example, murder implies the taking of an innocent life without justification. As a rule this would be considered an ethically wrong act. An ethically good act would be one that increasees overall good, or, decreases overall harm, or, is an act that we would want all people to follow at all times or something similar. Killing innocent people for no reason is not generally considered a good.



TY


Eaglebauer

Moderator
New Post! September 21, 2017 @ 12:25:10 pm
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@Erimitus Said




When I started this thread I was thinking of Abraham and his boy and wondering why God would ask Abe to do something unethical like murder.



I believe the common reasoning is that he was testing him. The important part of the story in that theory is that he actually stopped Abraham from the murder once it was clear that he was willing to do it at God's direction.

It does raise a question though regarding the duality of ethical standard...even going back to the ancient Greeks, "pious" was defined by many as simply "what the gods love," and I think...at least this is my interpretation of that particular bible story...it was a way of positing "ethical" as "whatever God commands."

Not only would the story then serve to define Ethics as being based solely in divine authority (something I don't happen to believe myself), it also serves as a lesson that if you follow the command of God, God will in turn be a merciful authority. Snap into line, you'll be just fine.

I think a lot of devout Christians feel this way. I once went through an extremely visceral and dark period and felt very lost and hopeless for a good while. One of the people I spoke with during that time was a teacher of mine from years past who is also a Catholic nun. She told me that prayer is much more about listening than it is about talking and that peace is only found by submitting to whatever it is God tells you must happen, and that often that won't make sense to you when you hear it but you are not in a position to doubt. I do not believe this myself, but the story of Abraham and his son is just a more elaborate way of saying the same thing. It may have seemed unethical to murder his son...there may have been no logical reason he could think of to do so...but God told him to so he'd better just do it.

The problem with that idea is that some people's gods tell them to do things that are harmful to innocent others and don't stop them in time.

Just ask David Berkowitz.

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