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May 08, 2008 @ 22:48:32

#31

jonnythan

Abominable Snowman
86644 points

27/M/NY, New York
Join Date: Aug 2005

rogy said:
In what sense do we not do this?

rogy

Because the milk we get from dairy cows would not feed any calves if we didn't use it. We're not taking milk from any baby cows. There are no baby cows to be taking all this milk from.

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May 08, 2008 @ 22:49:08

#32

jonnythan

Abominable Snowman
86644 points

27/M/NY, New York
Join Date: Aug 2005

rogy said:
Of course it is. Wrapping ourselves in someone else's skin is a rights violation from an animal rights pov.

rogy

Assuming that in your moral code animals have the same rights as humans.

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May 08, 2008 @ 22:49:18

#33

adrinachrome

Über-Minister
15303 points

25/M/, United States (general)
Join Date: Apr 2008

rogy said:
Of course it is. Wrapping ourselves in someone else's skin is a rights violation from an animal rights pov.

rogy

dude it isn't wrong, we are on top of the food chain, people have been wearing and eating animals for as long as we've been around. Its not gonna stop, ever.

clever got me this far then tricky got me in

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May 08, 2008 @ 22:52:19

#34

adrinachrome

Über-Minister
15303 points

25/M/, United States (general)
Join Date: Apr 2008

rogy said:
But you would not advocate that 'smart' humans can exploit less smart ones as some sort of right - or would you?

rogy

Intelligent people have been exploiting less intelligent people for as long as people have been around as well. Thats different though, people with a lower capacity to think are still people they can still fell the deeper emotions that only humans can feel they can still to some extent rationalize what is going on around them. Face it dude we're a very cruel species and that is not going to change.

clever got me this far then tricky got me in

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May 08, 2008 @ 22:53:37

#35

rogy

Points Whore
948 points

50/M/, United Kingdom
Join Date: Dec 2007

alexkidd said:
eh,
there's plenty of milk for us and calves.
there's no calves starving for lack of milk.

Do you think we share calf food with the calves? No - we take it for ourselves. Try: link [www.mcl.unisonplus.net]

The calves do not starve to death - you are right - we put them to death. Do you think we could have a similar system in terms of human milk? That women naturally produce enough milk for her baby and the rest of the community?

rogy

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May 08, 2008 @ 22:55:12

#36

adrinachrome

Über-Minister
15303 points

25/M/, United States (general)
Join Date: Apr 2008

rogy said:
Do you think we share calf food with the calves? No - we take it for ourselves. Try: link [www.mcl.unisonplus.net]

The calves do not starve to death - you are right - we put them to death. Do you think we could have a similar system in terms of human milk? That women naturally produce enough milk for her baby and the rest of the community?

rogy

look up Wet nurse

clever got me this far then tricky got me in

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May 08, 2008 @ 22:56:05

#37

rogy

Points Whore
948 points

50/M/, United Kingdom
Join Date: Dec 2007

jonnythan said:
Because the milk we get from dairy cows would not feed any calves if we didn't use it. We're not taking milk from any baby cows. There are no baby cows to be taking all this milk from.

Sorry, you have lost me here. You realise that cows have to be made pregnant to provide milk, right - like human mothers. We are all mammals in terms of this conversation.

So, of course, there is a child somewhere in the process.

rogy

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May 08, 2008 @ 22:58:18

#38

rogy

Points Whore
948 points

50/M/, United Kingdom
Join Date: Dec 2007

adrinachrome said:
look up Wet nurse

And how many mouths can a 'wet nurse' provide for?

rogy

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May 08, 2008 @ 22:59:54

#39

adrinachrome

Über-Minister
15303 points

25/M/, United States (general)
Join Date: Apr 2008

rogy said:
And how many mouths can a 'wet nurse' provide for?

rogy

lol I dont know, at least 2.

clever got me this far then tricky got me in

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May 08, 2008 @ 23:00:09

#40

rogy

Points Whore
948 points

50/M/, United Kingdom
Join Date: Dec 2007

jonnythan said:
Assuming that in your moral code animals have the same rights as humans.

Of course not. There is no animal rights theory based on nonhuman animals having the same rights as human ones.

rogy

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May 08, 2008 @ 23:02:26

#41

rogy

Points Whore
948 points

50/M/, United Kingdom
Join Date: Dec 2007

adrinachrome said:
lol I dont know, at least 2.

And likely a max of 3 - at some physical cost over a prolonged period. So we are not comparing like with like thinking about commercial cow milk production and the few instances of wt nursing.

rogy

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May 08, 2008 @ 23:03:45

#42

adrinachrome

Über-Minister
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25/M/, United States (general)
Join Date: Apr 2008

rogy said:
And likely a max of 3 - at some physical cost over a prolonged period. So we are not comparing like with like thinking about commercial cow milk production and the few instances of wt nursing.

rogy

OK, but commercial cows dont produce milk exclusively for our children, I like milk too.

clever got me this far then tricky got me in

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May 08, 2008 @ 23:04:16

#43

alexkidd

Monk
36919 points

23/M/in a bog, Ireland
Join Date: Sep 2006

rogy said:
Sorry, you have lost me here. You realise that cows have to be made pregnant to provide milk, right - like human mothers. We are all mammals in terms of this conversation.

So, of course, there is a child somewhere in the process.

rogy

ok biology lesson,
cows can continue to produce milk for years, they don't produce a fixed supply measured per calf.

most calves are farmed and grow up to either be milk producers themselves or are raised and later killed as adults for food.
some are killed as calfs, its quite a delicacy.

whatever your view on the need to kill animals, which can be very much backed up, i'd rather see meat producing farms growing crops.
i eat a small amount of meat these days, but i've been a vegetarian i have strong opinions on the ethical treatment of animals.

but we are not stealing milk from the calves.