Forum Index > News & Politics > Abortion
 Mar 25, 2008 @ 03:13:46 | #3 | amish
Debater
5055 points
31/M/,
Join Date: Feb 2008 | i think these are better left as moral issues than trying to legalize them.
morally, it's obvious why a man should have to support his own children. legally, i can't even explain it.
as far as whether he has rights to a pregnant woman's body just because it's carrying an unborn fetus, that's practially a religious concern imo.
and writing laws based on religious beliefs is a bad idea imo, unless you're deciding when to let people off federal jobs to celebrate christmas, channukah, or kwanzaa.
personally i think the idea that a man can tell a woman what to do with an unborn baby is just next to telling her that she must give him sex against her will. i realize you've got some of your dna in there too, but try baking your dna without a womb, and see if it results in anything. it's not a perfect world, but i think we can err on the side of sanity and let women have the final word on this one.
mary matalin <-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|- 0 -|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-> marlee matlin
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| Mar 25, 2008 @ 04:20:24 | #6 | lilbear
Ogler
22095 points
108/F/, Canada
Join Date: Jan 2008 | jccole2871 said:
If the woman, and the government can make a man support a child,(by the way ,not may argument I agree). Why does the father have no abortion decision? If she chooses to terminate he can not stop it at all.
My stance. If the father has no rights at all, pre-birth, why should he have to do anything post-birth?
That's always been my view on this situation also, it's not fair to say the father has no say in whether the woman of his child should have an abortion or not, but you can bet your bottom dollar that he WILL be acknowledged if she decides to give birth to the child and ask for support payments, double message here people, make up our minds, in one case a father is not recognized and has no say, and in the other case it's the same he still has no say, because then he is forced to pay support what is that and who came up with this kind of illogical thinking, totally contradicts itself and either way the man has no say.
 Women should really make up their minds and quit trying to control the men with their ambiguity JMO and the Courts that allow them to do this are just as guilty in my books. Again just my Opinion  and to add: those same women that say that the father has no right to tell her what to do with HER body are the very same one's that are SCREAMING support if THEY decide to give birth to the child, religion, courts in my opinion should not even get involved in this one, it's a power thing for the women over the man and when you get right down to it that's all it is, she calls the shots, which is not right no matter which way you want to cut it, that's giving the women total control over the father and it's not right in any form or situation.JMO 
I laugh, I love, I hope, I try, I hurt, I need, I fear, I cry. And I know you do the same things too, So we're really not that different, me and you.
Colin Raye | | | 0 Kudos   | Edited: March 25, 2008 @ 04:28 |  |
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| Mar 25, 2008 @ 06:50:49 | #8 | amish
Debater
5055 points
31/M/,
Join Date: Feb 2008 | i see it like this... by submitting my sperm (pardon the expression) i relinquish the right to legally force my partner to get an abortion. the idea of telling her to get one when she doesn't want to get an abortion is apprehensible.
similarly, if she wants an abortion, it may save her life, as birth is a process that poses some risk to the mother's life. so basically i don't ever think i have a legal right to force her to have a baby either, it would be like a right to threaten her life.
any alternative to this in my opinion is to take away the rights a living person has and give them to an unborn baby. i don't believe lawyers should count chickens before they're hatched, let alone give them more rights than living women.
ergo, there should be no legal rights for men in this, such rights would decrease the rights a woman needs. a moral right may exist, but that's between the man and the woman to work out, and no place for a court to decide. the idea of a court having rights to the woman is even more absurd than the idea of a man having rights to her. this is what you get into when you use the word "rights." the natural burden of birth is on the woman, that's why she has more rights than the man, she has greater responsibility. i don't know why people can't see that.
because the burden is greater for the woman, i think it is reasonable to take money from the man to support the child, even if his decision making rights end at conception. i think people should think about that very carefully before personally "ruling" on the idea whether a man should have to support a child "he didn't want to keep." but if it comes down to which is less reasonable, forcing payment on a child he wanted to abort, or the right to abort or force the birth of a child, by all means do take away his legal requirement to pay her and leave him and the courtroom the hell out of her uterus.
mary matalin <-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|- 0 -|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-> marlee matlin
| | | | 0 Kudos | Edited: March 25, 2008 @ 07:09 | |
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| Mar 25, 2008 @ 21:33:00 | #12 | amish
Debater
5055 points
31/M/,
Join Date: Feb 2008 | Quote:
but with that mentality i can see it dooming the human race to extinction when nobody makes babies anymore because they find it morally unethical,
you're going to have to explain that, i can't see how that possibly follows from what i said. yes, both abortion and birth pose a mortal (if uncommon) threat to the mother, that's why it should be her legal decision, but i said the moral decision may lie with both parents.
don't confuse legal and moral rights, i don't, and don't confuse legality with all of society, as if just because the courts don't have the right to force a man's decision, it won't have any weight.
the court has no right deciding the "acceptable risk" of the mother, and so the court can't give that right to the father, but that doesn't mean he has no say, it means the final legal decision is up to the mother.
your argument might be meaningful if you couldn't have a baby without the court ok'ing it.
mary matalin <-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|- 0 -|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-> marlee matlin
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