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Forum Index > News & Politics |
trunkmonkey
Apprentice
26 points
0/NA/
Join Date: Feb 2004 | First off, I just raised the previous question because I wanted to hear others ideas/thoughts. Also, people can choose however it is that they want to live. If someone chooses the life of a thief, then go ahead but be prepared to suffer the consequences. If you want to be gay then be gay. "Morally objectionable to you." Did I object? Nope.
Yes, I have heard genetics being partly the blame. However, this is not the case with all. No, homosexuality is not natural, especially in role of reproduction. You said that if it wasn't natural then, "why would someone do something that would otherwise be repugnant?"
So when an older man rapes a 13yr. girl, it must be natural because why else would he have created such a repugnant act?
Again, if you wanna be gay then be gay. If you want to be recognized by the state as a joined couple or union....then fine. Just don't go around flaunting it (e.g. gay parades).
The "square peg" line was just some added humor. And No Kyle, I don't have a square peg....lol |  | |
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cet
Apprentice
18 points
0/NA/
Join Date: Mar 2004 | Quote:
CET, for one thing, i told what i thought was wrong with gays. Young children growning up in this world have to see stuff like, gays making out and whatever else they might do in public, and grow up confussed.
What's so confusing about that?
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If that is not enough for you, and im sure its not, where do you draw the line?
What line?
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Being gay is not natural.
How do you know that?
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People that are gay are very confussed.
How do you know that?
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HOW could you possibly look at another person of your same sex like that.
I'm not gay and the idea of having any sort of sexual contact with another man is very undesirable to me. With that in mind, I would not choose to be gay because I would not purposefully choose to do something for a lifestyle that is repugnant to me. Therefore, I am left with the likelihood that being gay is not a decision, but rather something that is possibly genetically decided.
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Gays must have grown up playing with barbie dolls and putting on thier moms makeup or something.
Do you have any evidence of this, or is this just speculation?
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They start out life confused because no one told them any different and think they should have special rights and get special treatment because of it.
What special rights? What special treatment? They're just asking to be allowed to do what everyone else is allowed to do.
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Sorry, that dont fly with me and i would dare say most of america. If they want to do whatever they do in the privacy of thier own home that is fine by me, but not in public where everyone has to see it.
Are you afraid you're going to see guys going down on each other in the middle of the cafeteria or something?
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Making gay marriage legal would put more gays in public, being proud about being gay which we already have enough of right now which no one wants to see. I am not against anyone someone being gay but dont go throwing it up in everyone elses faces.
Let's put this into perspective. Let's exchange the word "gay" for the word "women" and "women's sufferage" in that last paragraph.
Making women's sufferage legal would put more women in public, being proud about women's sufferage which we already have enough of right now which no one wants to see. I am not against women's sufferage but dont go throwing it up in everyone elses faces.
You can do the same thing with "blacks" and "civil rights". With this exercise, it is easy to figure out what your position really is. | | | |
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cet
Apprentice
18 points
0/NA/
Join Date: Mar 2004 | Quote:
First off, I just raised the previous question because I wanted to hear others ideas/thoughts. Also, people can choose however it is that they want to live. If someone chooses the life of a thief, then go ahead but be prepared to suffer the consequences. If you want to be gay then be gay. "Morally objectionable to you." Did I object? Nope.
Yes, I have heard genetics being partly the blame. However, this is not the case with all.
Do you really know that to be a fact, or are you just speculating?
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No, homosexuality is not natural, especially in role of reproduction.
How do you know homosexuality is not natural? Perhaps homosexuality is a trait that kicks in to slow down population growth, sort of like how some frogs can change gender if there isn't enough of one gender around to keep reproduction up. Do you suppose that is possible?
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You said that if it wasn't natural then, "why would someone do something that would otherwise be repugnant?"
Yes, I did and I notice that you have not answered it.
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So when an older man rapes a 13yr. girl, it must be natural because why else would he have created such a repugnant act?
Actually, that is a natural act. It is only in very recent history that it has become a social norm in the industrialized world to have sex with someone near 18 years old. Until recently, that age was considered nearly an old maid. At turn of the century (about 1900), if a woman wasn't married by the time she was 19, she was considered an "old maid".
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Again, if you wanna be gay then be gay. If you want to be recognized by the state as a joined couple or union....then fine. Just don't go around flaunting it (e.g. gay parades).
Why not? I don't necessarily like the guys who get on the news who are wearing those huge gawdy outfits, but most of the parades are actually pretty boring. You have several groups like "Gay Accountants of Los Angeles" and you have a banner saying this with a bunch of people in their work clothes (usually business suits) walking down the street. Of course, these people don't get on the news because they're boring and the one guy (or one group) covered in feathers and leather is much more interesting, but the point is to make it known that gays are amongst us in society in all professions and coexisting with everyone else. | | | |
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trunkmonkey
Apprentice
26 points
0/NA/
Join Date: Feb 2004 | Genetics can be the blame. I don't want to get into this either. However, there have been those rare circumstances where an individual was born with both male and female parts. However, genetics is not always the case. Study up on some psychology if you get bored(nature vs. nurture).
About homosexuality kicking in due to a trait to slow down population....doubt it. But then I have no proof to support it and neither do you.
People might perform repugnant acts for various reasons. We might refer to these individuals as "needing help" not, "oh well, they're just acting natural." In other words, they don't know any better.
So raping is a natural act regardless of age? Natural doesn't mean right. If someone cuts me off while driving, then I decide to run them off the road......it must be okay. Afterall, it was natural for me to lose my temper and to act against the aggressor. Guess I was in the right.
Like I said, I don't have a problem with people choosing to be gay. I don't like it when they flaunt it. Why? Because I don't care. They think they've achieved something. Don't demand respect.....earn it. It would be like me taking a sign and walking through campus yelling, "I'm straight and I love women!" I mean really, who cares? | | | |
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cet
Apprentice
18 points
0/NA/
Join Date: Mar 2004 | Quote:
Genetics can be the blame. I don't want to get into this either. However, there have been those rare circumstances where an individual was born with both male and female parts. However, genetics is not always the case. Study up on some psychology if you get bored (nature vs. nurture).
There are instances where a man is born with one Y chromosome and two X chromosomes. These men claim that they feel like women trapped inside of men's bodies and many of them get sex change operations. I used to know a man who had two Y chromosomes and one X chromosome, and he was the most macho guy I ever knew. If these things are possible and lead to unusual behavior an a man, then it is concievable that a similar thing could happen to someone who is gay.
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About homosexuality kicking in due to a trait to slow down population....doubt it. But then I have no proof to support it and neither do you.
You're right, I don't know. I just threw an idea out there to make precisely that point.
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People might perform repugnant acts for various reasons. We might refer to these individuals as "needing help" not, "oh well, they're just acting natural." In other words, they don't know any better.
Some "natural" are "repugnant" (which is a subjective term) and those individuals may need help. However, if they are not depriving anyone else of life, liberty or property, I don't see how it is a social issue. Once that individual deprives someone else of life, liberty or property, then and only then does it become someone else's business.
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So raping is a natural act regardless of age?
Yes, it is.
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Natural doesn't mean right.
That's true.
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If someone cuts me off while driving, then I decide to run them off the road......it must be okay. Afterall, it was natural for me to lose my temper and to act against the aggressor. Guess I was in the right.
Nope, you just made the straw man fallacy. Just because an act is natural does not mean that it is socially acceptable. If any act deprives anyone else of life, liberty or property, then that act is socially unacceptable.
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Like I said, I don't have a problem with people choosing to be gay. I don't like it when they flaunt it. Why? Because I don't care. They think they've achieved something. Don't demand respect.....earn it. It would be like me taking a sign and walking through campus yelling, "I'm straight and I love women!" I mean really, who cares?
Let's do that word exchange exercise again for a bit of perspective and exchange the word "gay" for the word "black".
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Like I said, I don't have a problem with people being black. I don't like it when they flaunt it. Why? Because I don't care. They think they've achieved something. Don't demand respect.....earn it. It would be like me taking a sign and walking through campus yelling, "I'm white!" I mean really, who cares?
Just like blacks fighting for civil rights, gays fighting for civil rights have to make a bunch of noise to be noticed. Now that they have the public's attention, it would be nice if they had a cooler and articulate individual to plead their case, sort of a gay Martin Luther King Jr. type. However, most gays don't spend every hour of every day walking around with banners and gawdy outfits that say, "Look at me, I'm gay!" They have the public's attention and that was exactly the point of the "flaunting it".
Besides, who cares? Does it make you nervous that someone would openly be attracted to the same sex? If it doesn't bother you, then why do you care? If you can go around and pick up on girls, why can't they do the same?
I am a bouncer at a latin club and the crowd there is very socially interesting to me. You have all sorts of different types of individuals there and they all mix and get along. We have a few guys come in that are obviously gay and no one gives a rat's ass. They're treated just like everyone else. Fights have ever involved different groups of people disputing because they're of different groups, they are almost always about one guy trying to pick on some other guy's girlfriend. The level of tolerance that I see there just astounds and inspires me and I find me every week asking mysefl, "Why can't americans have this kind of social tolerance?"[ | | | |
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pile
Apprentice
16 points
0/NA/
Join Date: Feb 2004 | trunkmonkey wrote:
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Again, if you wanna be gay then be gay. If you want to be recognized by the state as a joined couple or union....then fine. Just don't go around flaunting it (e.g. gay parades).
The KKK has the right under our Bill of Rights to have parades. Why should gays not be allowed? They are not an organization with a past history of violence, and discrimination. The Bill of Rights protects all groups of individuals. With the laws that some want passed it would violate the freedoms guaranteed to us being US citizens.
Any law that prevents human rights will ultimately be found unconstitutional. Why fight it? Its not a fight you can win. Plessy vs Ferguson verdict was overturned (granted many years later) because it did limit human freedom. It costs our government lots of money to have high powered attorney's fight over each side then have the supreme court justices decide it.
We are all EQUAL ! To look at another human being and say they are anything less is a violation of what the Bible teaches the Christians trying to make this law. To try and control a group of individuals to limit there freedoms, because their ideals aren't the same as yours, is not Christian like behavior. | | | |
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cet
Apprentice
18 points
0/NA/
Join Date: Mar 2004 | Quote:trunkmonkey wrote:
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Again, if you wanna be gay then be gay. If you want to be recognized by the state as a joined couple or union....then fine. Just don't go around flaunting it (e.g. gay parades).
The KKK has the right under our Bill of Rights to have parades. Why should gays not be allowed? They are not an organization with a past history of violence, and discrimination. The Bill of Rights protects all groups of individuals. With the laws that some want passed it would violate the freedoms guaranteed to us being US citizens.
Speaking of public displays of flaunting and ridiculousness, Mardi Gras or any sporting even shows how straight people can put on stupid outfits and act like morons. I don't see the difference between that and the few gawdy individuals that show up to gay pride parades. | | | |
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trunkmonkey
Apprentice
26 points
0/NA/
Join Date: Feb 2004 | CET, you make some good points and that's why I have liked discussing this with you. I'm not not trying to prove I'm right or that you're wrong. Just simply trying to learn.
"Just because an act is natural does not mean that it is socially acceptable." Good point. Regardless if being gay is natural or not, then do we assume that it's right or wrong based on social acceptance?
I don't think we should put gays and blacks on the same level. Gays have the rights as everyone else except for marriage (probably only momentarily). I guess it's fine if they do want to flaunt it but why? And again, what have they achieved? Had they suffered as much as the blacks did during their extensive history, then I would have a greater respect for them and could better understand their reasoning. However, they are letting us know about their sexual preference. Big deal.
And again, be gay if you want to be gay. I usually get along with most people anyways regardless of their different backgrounds. I find people interesting, and that's why I had started out as a psychology major.
Pile, I just made a personal statement. An opinion if you will. Maybe using the example of gay parades was not of best. Yes, I agree with you that we are all equal. I wouldn't treat you any different than I would anyone else. However, if we are truly equal, then why demonstrate it?
My uncle used to work as a manager at a restaurant. He said one time there was a group of guys talking real loud about their sexual preference or about being gay(something like that). It began to bother many of the customers. So he pulled one of them to the side and asked if they would tone it down or talk about something else. Supposively, the guy replied, "you're just saying that because we're gay." My uncle responded," How do you know that I'm not gay?" He's not gay, but not everyone wants to hear about anyone else's sexual preference regardless if you're gay or straight.
Also Pile, don't put words in my mouth. I in no way stated that I was superior to anyone nor am I trying to control their freedom. But as a Christian, I can judge that homosexuality is a sin. | | | |
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cet
Apprentice
18 points
0/NA/
Join Date: Mar 2004 | Quote:
CET, you make some good points and that's why I have liked discussing this with you. I'm not not trying to prove I'm right or that you're wrong. Just simply trying to learn.
Thanks! I like hearing ideas that differ from mine and how they were arrived at. I then like to socratically take those reasons apart to see if there is validity to it. If there is, then I consider adopting that particular point of view.
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"Just because an act is natural does not mean that it is socially acceptable." Good point. Regardless if being gay is natural or not, then do we assume that it's right or wrong based on social acceptance?
I think social acceptance should be based on whether or not an act deprives anyone of life, liberty or property. If it does not, then it should be socially acceptable. If it does, then it should be socially unacceptable.
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I don't think we should put gays and blacks on the same level. Gays have the rights as everyone else except for marriage (probably only momentarily). I guess it's fine if they do want to flaunt it but why?
The same reason Malcom X tried his best to get attention (and he got lots of that), it shines a spotlight on what is seen as a social injustice.
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And again, what have they achieved?
Plenty. Sympathy, just for starters. There is FAR more sympathy for gays now then there was 50 years ago.
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Had they suffered as much as the blacks did during their extensive history, then I would have a greater respect for them and could better understand their reasoning.
They have suffered as much as jews (possibly more). Hitler did the same thing to gays that he did to the jews. Jews have recieved huge amounts of sympathy (including reparations) for the holocaust, but the gays have not. The jews have been persecuted by european and middle east societies, but gays have been persecuted by most every european and middle east societies.
"If a man also lie with manking, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them." - Leviticus 20:13
This is a death sentence for homosexual acts. This seems pretty harsh for doing something that doesn't harm anyone. The Koran contains similar passages, though I am not very familiar with that book at all.
european and middle east However, they are letting us know about their sexual preference. Big deal.
Public attention and sympathy.
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My uncle used to work as a manager at a restaurant. He said one time there was a group of guys talking real loud about their sexual preference or about being gay(something like that). It began to bother many of the customers. So he pulled one of them to the side and asked if they would tone it down or talk about something else. Supposively, the guy replied, "you're just saying that because we're gay." My uncle responded," How do you know that I'm not gay?" He's not gay, but not everyone wants to hear about anyone else's sexual preference regardless if you're gay or straight.
This is a very interesting story and I like how your uncle handled it. When someone is in a restrant and they are disturbing other patrons, that is out of line and the restrant has every right to throw someone out if they are interfering with their business.
Of course your story could have been about someone talking about NASCAR, church, fried chicken, or anything for that matter. It sounds like it was the behavior, rather then the subject matter that was the problem. If they were having a quiet discussion about "gay topics" and they were asked to leave, then that is discrimination. | | | |
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cet
Apprentice
18 points
0/NA/
Join Date: Mar 2004 | Quote:
It should be a personal choice. If you believe in the bible then of course your not going to do it. If you choose to do it then by all means be that way.
I am in favor for bush's anti-gay policy due to just personal preferance and for the control of the gay population trying to impose their rights on me.
What do you mean by "imposing their rights on you"? Seriously, what does that mean? It sounds like hollow rhetoric.
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Complaining about this and we have rights about that. If your going to be gay, nobodys going to stop you, well except the guy who might punch you in the face for trying to hit on him! :D
I believe that there is some underlying reason for two sexes to exist. I guess what im trying to say is that if your going to be gay, don't push it off on anyone that isnt.
This is the second time you've mentioned something being pushed off on you, so what's being pushed off on you? I'm sorry, I really am trying to follow you, but you're not being clear.
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Do your thing, but as for me, I just like being 100% straight. The choice is yours.
~There is no spoon~
Free your mind Neo.  | | | |
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Mar 08, 2004 @ 03:48:28
