The Forum Site - Join the conversation
"Post-digestive- nuggets"
On July 01, 2021 Erimitus


More Pics


The mind of God, Antarctica
Joined: Jun 2009

My Stats
Age: 78
Gender: M
Location: The mind of God

Antarctica
Posts: 16489
PLS: ? 21.76
Joined:: Jun 12, 2009
Reputation: 1653

 
ProfileJournalFriendsPostsPics

Post digestive nuggets
TFS Journal
The problem of language....
June 06, 2017 @ 04:01:04 am



I use language with the intention of meaning something by what I say.

Language is always (more or less) vague, so that what I assert is never quite precise.

Given the syntax of a language, the meaning of a sentence is determinate when the meaning of the component words/symbols is known.

The problem of language is that Almost all words/symbols have many meanings.

If each symbol used always had a definite and unique meaning Then (Given the syntax of a language), the meaning of a sentence would be determinate

I suppose that scientific language is very precise and each science has its own symbols each with a definite and unique meaning.

(of course) some poets and comedians might have difficulty if they had to communicate without double entendre

anyway....
...do you think a perfect language is possible?

0
Quote | Reply


Jennifer1984

Returner and proud

New Post! June 06, 2017 @ 04:18:05 am
0
@Erimitus Said



anyway....
...do you think a perfect language is possible?



Yes, but it sure as heck won't be English.


twilitezone911

New Post! June 06, 2017 @ 04:23:45 am
0
@Erimitus Said

I use language with the intention of meaning something by what I say.

Language is always (more or less) vague, so that what I assert is never quite precise.

Given the syntax of a language, the meaning of a sentence is determinate when the meaning of the component words/symbols is known.

The problem of language is that Almost all words/symbols have many meanings.

If each symbol used always had a definite and unique meaning Then (Given the syntax of a language), the meaning of a sentence would be determinate

I suppose that scientific language is very precise and each science has its own symbols each with a definite and unique meaning.

(of course) some poets and comedians might have difficulty if they had to communicate without double entendre

anyway....
...do you think a perfect language is possible?



yes or no question.

who would determine this perfect language particular group of people. it might start with one person.

each person has the own way of understand a language, and does a person know a certain this a language is perfect.

i understand a perfect language the look or the sound of it come out of a person's mouth.

each person, even with a perfect language would phrase in the person's own fashion, not the way that language present it.

you possible adapt a new version an old language or make up a new language.

i think the problem with a perfect language is always one thing with everything.

err is human!


Erimitus

New Post! June 06, 2017 @ 04:35:10 am
0
@Jennifer1984 Said

Yes, but it sure as heck won't be English.



We could call it 'New Speak'


twilitezone911

New Post! June 06, 2017 @ 04:43:51 am
0
maybe a perfect language should to basics instead use letters, we should use pictures.

how many ways can draw a picture difference than it's original way.

if cavemen can draw pictures to communicate, why we can go back to some so simple.


chaski

Stalker

New Post! June 06, 2017 @ 05:19:33 am
0
Math.


Erimitus

New Post! June 06, 2017 @ 03:09:15 pm
0
Tzu: who would determine this perfect language particular group of people.

E: It would have to be generally agreed on. I would say the best approach would be a New Speak dictionary as the standard.

________________________________________


Tzu: each person has the own way of understand a language

Paraphrase: Each person has their own way of understanding language.

E: please explain

________________________________________


Tzu: does a person know a certain this a language is perfect.

E: The perfect language would be the ideal.

E: There are very few things that can be known with certainty.

________________________________________


TZ: i understand a perfect language the look or the sound of it come out of a person's mouth.

E: Not only would the meaning of a term be unique; the symbol that represents the meaning would have to be unique; and the way the symbol is pronounce would have to be unique.

________________________________________


TZ: each person, even with a perfect language would phrase in the person's own fashion, not the way that language present it.

E: A people who phrased in their own fashion would not be communicating in standard New Speak.

E: People who are all using the same dialect might communicate effectively (i.e., a high degree of certainty.

E: have you ever noticed that people who have lived together for longer than they have not are able to communicate with barely perceptible gestures. It has all been said, defined and understood; all that is needed is a simple gesture.

E: I have an example; If I were to tell you, "I will meet you at the place", you would not know where to meet me. We have not defined where or what the place is. If the place was [5600 East Nowhere street Apartment 457C] and we have established and agreed that the place is [5600 East Nowhere street Apartment 457C] we could drop the [5600 East Nowhere street Apartment 457C] and I could communicate the information by saying, "I will meet you at the place". Eventually we could drop the, "I will meet you at..." and just say ,"the place" and then progress to no more than the word, "place..." with a nod. And ...and then, after we have known each other for longer than we have not we could drop the word completely and communicate with no more than a nod.

________________________________________


Tzu: u possible adapt a new version an old language or make up a new language.

E: If the perfect language were to be international I suppose we would have to make up a new language with its own phonics and syntax.

________________________________________


Tzu: i think the problem with a perfect language is always one thing with everything.

err is human!

E: I do not understand.


twilitezone911

New Post! June 06, 2017 @ 07:18:39 pm
0
@Erimitus Said

Tzu: who would determine this perfect language particular group of people.

E: It would have to be generally agreed on. I would say the best approach would be a New Speak dictionary as the standard.

________________________________________


Tzu: each person has the own way of understand a language

Paraphrase: Each person has their own way of understanding language.

E: please explain

________________________________________


Tzu: does a person know a certain this a language is perfect.

E: The perfect language would be the ideal.

E: There are very few things that can be known with certainty.

________________________________________


TZ: i understand a perfect language the look or the sound of it come out of a person's mouth.

E: Not only would the meaning of a term be unique; the symbol that represents the meaning would have to be unique; and the way the symbol is pronounce would have to be unique.

________________________________________


TZ: each person, even with a perfect language would phrase in the person's own fashion, not the way that language present it.

E: A people who phrased in their own fashion would not be communicating in standard New Speak.

E: People who are all using the same dialect might communicate effectively (i.e., a high degree of certainty.

Tzu: each person has the own way of understand a language

Paraphrase: Each person has their own way of understanding language.

E: please explain

E: I have an example; If I were to tell you, "I will meet you at the place", you would not know where to meet me. We have not defined where or what the place is. If the place was [5600 East Nowhere street Apartment 457C] and we have established and agreed that the place is [5600 East Nowhere street Apartment 457C] we could drop the [5600 East Nowhere street Apartment 457C] and I could communicate the information by saying, "I will meet you at the place". Eventually we could drop the, "I will meet you at..." and just say ,"the place" and then progress to no more than the word, "place..." with a nod. And ...and then, after we have known each other for longer than we have not we could drop the word completely and communicate with no more than a nod.

________________________________________


Tzu: u possible adapt a new version an old language or make up a new language.

E: If the perfect language were to be international I suppose we would have to make up a new language with its own phonics and syntax.

________________________________________


Tzu: i think the problem with a perfect language is always one thing with everything.

err is human!

E: I do not understand.







Tzu: each person has the own way of understand a language

Paraphrase: Each person has their own way of understanding language.

E: please explain


let us said you are asian, i was wonderful!

japanese people has their own language and symbols of letters that were japanese only godzilla could understand, but i have no idea what any word that come out of two japanese's mouths.

but, the two are watching watching one of my favorite gozilla movie " gozilla vs king kong ' on tv.

the two japanese people were talking in their own language, and i didn't know one they are said. gozilla wasn't out of town, when this happen. so i was lost with translation.

the two are japenese in front of me, so i don't what are saying. same thing could apply to me, i was on my smartphone talking gozilla in english. they won't know what i was saying, so because gozilla told me that he is going attack again toyko soon. but they don't know it, because we talk in english.


indirectly way, chaski is in sense is right ( if he was going in the direction taht is talking about math..) that new speak that is not determine by religion, culture, or even somewhat generation gap or culture trend.

the new speak would be determine by symbols of letters and numbers, it would a logically assumption to go toward for the best.

E: have you ever noticed that people who have lived together for longer than they have not are able to communicate with barely perceptible gestures. It has all been said, defined and understood; all that is needed is a simple gesture.

i know what you mean i don't have to said anything to twilite, when i slapped twilite's head during my posts, he get the message.


Tzu: i think the problem with a perfect language is always one thing with everything.

err is human!

E: I do not understand.

how do you define the language was created by man?

man is not perfect, so man can make errors, because he is human. any new speak that create by man will have problems. mostly, this new language will not be perfect.

because man make it.


chaski

Stalker

New Post! June 06, 2017 @ 07:39:33 pm
0
William Shatner once did a movie in Esperanto meant to be the perfect language for all to use.

Esperanto and the movie ( Incubus ) pretty much failed...the movie got one star and the language is virtually if not actually unused.


twilitezone911

New Post! June 06, 2017 @ 11:38:51 pm
0
@chaski Said

William Shatner once did a movie in Esperanto meant to be the perfect language for all to use.

Esperanto and the movie ( Incubus ) pretty much failed...the movie got one star and the language is virtually if not actually unused.



i never heard of this movie before, i read your post a couple of hours ago. i looked up the movie, this movie been really turkey for bill. this movie before star trek.

in 1966, i was 8 years old, i was only allow to stayed only 8:30 pm every night. i remember " the twlight zone " was off the air then. but a lot of tv shows that i could watched between 6:00-8:30pm.

this movie was made in 1966,in those days, my sisters and i went to see " g rating " movies at theater. we saw a lot of musicals, godzilla movies, hercules movies, western movies, war movies,and disney movies.

i don't think i saw any with bill until star trek on nbc on friday nights at 7:00 p.m.

in 50's, bill started as shakespeake actor in early 20's.


Jennifer1984

Returner and proud

New Post! June 07, 2017 @ 04:06:01 pm
0
@Erimitus Said

We could call it 'New Speak'



Did you say that intentionally, picking up from my screen name that I was born in 1984..?


Erimitus

New Post! June 07, 2017 @ 11:17:22 pm
0
@Jennifer1984 Said

Did you say that intentionally, picking up from my screen name that I was born in 1984..?



I was thinking of the book...


Erimitus

New Post! June 07, 2017 @ 11:18:12 pm
0
@chaski Said

Math.



Yeah


Erimitus

New Post! June 07, 2017 @ 11:26:15 pm
0
@Jennifer1984 Said

Yes, but it sure as heck won't be English.



A universal language would not be English.



Tzu: suggested a language of pictures. That might work. Probably would not be able to have many deep philosophical discussions with a picture language. Although Chinese is a kind of a picture language and it can be philosophical. And ...languages that use a lot of inflections (e.g., Chinese might be difficult to translate into a perfect language.

Anyway, what I was thinking (in the OP) was a language with each word having only one meaning.


mrmhead

New Post! June 08, 2017 @ 02:00:50 am
0
The Greek Word that can't be translated

... I don't know, I suppose I could look it up, but isn't that word the basis for "Philanthropy" - though using that is a circular definition - but I think we all have an idea of what Philanthropy is ....

I'm not sure I had a relevant point, but it's kind of on-topic ...

Pages: 1 2 · >>
Quote | Reply