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MadCornishBiker On January 14, 2014

Banned



St Columb Road, United Kingdom
#61New Post! Nov 26, 2011 @ 09:13:32
@Electric_Banana Said

I was thinking something along the same lines...not in regards to Tariki's Buddhist Pure Land but after spending about five minutes on FaceBook right now, I don't know if it is just my warped perception but everyone participating on there appear to have been bamboofled into a state of mindless loving euphoria.

Granted nothing malevolent but still the overall ambiance was prosthetic and subtly disturbing.

If not allowed to descend into extremes it is those darker shades of soul which apply contrast, color and life to life.

I believe to each is own and the same with the reality they feel serves them best however hanging onto atheist or agnostic rationality makes more sense of the situation.

For instance, from the Twilight Zonish viewpoint brought on through theism I stopped on FaceBook and wondered if I'm existing in some really nonsensical Kurt Vonnegut novel. I'm sure it might be spiffy to explode into nothing but sunshine and smiles and walk around constantly aloof using the term 'love' like Smurfs use the term 'Smurf' but it seems to drift too far into an opposite extreme where the shades are lost along with that which makes life feel natural, genuine and well...real.

Obviously I can't go through life constantly spooking myself like this. The rational perspective brings things back down to Earth once again suggesting that nothing 'mystic' is taking place, it is just that people more and more have given up and decided to just talk themselves and everything around them pretty.

Apparently it does work.
But so does wearing a carrot suite to go shopping in the winter to keep me warm.

From my own personal end of things I've been finding it easiest just to ignore it all, all together.

Most things in life are a box that you can never open - you can just sit around guessing at the all or nothing that is inside. You wonder if the box is your friend or if the box is an opponent but ultimately there a million and one more interesting things to spend your time doing than spending all day playing guessing games with the box.


Unfortunately this is what happens in a lot of false and apostate Christian faiths, Stan has made them so attractive that people are sucked in by an overly broad stress on love of everyone, no matter what, and ignoring the fact that whilst God says that we should love all humanity, as He does, we should also follow His example of hating what some do. The principle behind that is simple. If you love someone enough, you hate whatever upsets them. God has let us know exactly what hurts and upsets Him so that is what we will hate if we love God enough. The only problem there is you have to get to know Him before you can truly love Him, and so few bother to get that close to the God who gave us all we have (if only by supplying all the ingredients, lol).

That is one of the things I love about true Christianity, it follows God's lead, and that of His son, which was identical anyway, as faithfully as they can manage. That was what I was looking for in a faith so it is hardly surprising that I am totally sold on it once I found it.

Oh, and don't let them get your goat, you can get some good meals off a goat, lol.
tariki On September 16, 2012

Deleted



, United Kingdom
#62New Post! Nov 26, 2011 @ 11:33:13
@Electric_Banana Said

I was thinking something along the same lines...not in regards to Tariki's Buddhist Pure Land but after spending about five minutes on FaceBook right now, I don't know if it is just my warped perception but everyone participating on there appear to have been bamboofled into a state of mindless loving euphoria.

Granted nothing malevolent but still the overall ambiance was prosthetic and subtly disturbing.

If not allowed to descend into extremes it is those darker shades of soul which apply contrast, color and life to life.

I believe to each is own and the same with the reality they feel serves them best however hanging onto atheist or agnostic rationality makes more sense of the situation.


Hi EB, as you say, "mindless loving euphoria's" have nothing to do with Pure Land Buddhism. As I sought to say to the Biker earlier on in this thread, wiping one's own mother clean after she goes to the toilet has nothing "vague" or "mystical" about it. And as I have sought to explain, again in this thread, a lot of the Pure Land "way" is being constantly mindful of ones own spites, hates, bias, fears (and so on and on) in each and every daily situation, yet such seen in the light of an infinite compassion and acceptance that does not seek to "judge" or "condemn", but to transform. And such transformation is the subject of personal experience, the furthest thing from "vagueness" imaginable.

Anyway, I keep the Biker on block, and see only where he is quoted by others. All I would say is that using a book to try to determine various dates when any such "transformation" will be instantaneous ("in the twinkling of an eye" ) is for me what could be classed as "vague" , if not mystical!

Electric_Banana On February 05, 2024




, New Zealand
#63New Post! Nov 26, 2011 @ 19:36:23
@tariki Said

Hi EB, as you say, "mindless loving euphoria's" have nothing to do with Pure Land Buddhism. As I sought to say to the Biker earlier on in this thread, wiping one's own mother clean after she goes to the toilet has nothing "vague" or "mystical" about it. And as I have sought to explain, again in this thread, a lot of the Pure Land "way" is being constantly mindful of ones own spites, hates, bias, fears (and so on and on) in each and every daily situation, yet such seen in the light of an infinite compassion and acceptance that does not seek to "judge" or "condemn", but to transform. And such transformation is the subject of personal experience, the furthest thing from "vagueness" imaginable.

Anyway, I keep the Biker on block, and see only where he is quoted by others. All I would say is that using a book to try to determine various dates when any such "transformation" will be instantaneous ("in the twinkling of an eye" ) is for me what could be classed as "vague" , if not mystical!



Agree. Mysticism is the center of fundamental Christianity.
MadCornishBiker On January 14, 2014

Banned



St Columb Road, United Kingdom
#64New Post! Nov 27, 2011 @ 10:26:24
@Electric_Banana Said

Agree. Mysticism is the center of fundamental Christianity.



In fact there is no place in fundamental, biblical Christianity for Mysticism. That only crept in with the apostasy in the 2nd century.
tariki On September 16, 2012

Deleted



, United Kingdom
#65New Post! Nov 27, 2011 @ 10:38:37
@Electric_Banana Said

Agree. Mysticism is the center of fundamental Christianity.



EB, not sure exactly what you mean here.

Mysticism is the center of fundamental Christianity? Did you mean "fundamentalist" Christianity, or do you mean exactly what you wrote, i.e. that mysticism is at the heart of Christianity?

Obviously - at least to me - it all depends on exactly what we define "mysticism" as. If we mean the actual experience of the divine/reality, then I would say it should be at the heart of all Faiths........but rarely is. We seem rather to prefer just talk about "God" and often futile disputes.
BozieFozie On May 19, 2022
Life's a Beach





Paradise, Florida
#66New Post! Nov 27, 2011 @ 11:30:46
@tariki Said

EB, not sure exactly what you mean here.

Mysticism is the center of fundamental Christianity? Did you mean "fundamentalist" Christianity, or do you mean exactly what you wrote, i.e. that mysticism is at the heart of Christianity?

Obviously - at least to me - it all depends on exactly what we define "mysticism" as. If we mean the actual experience of the divine/reality, then I would say it should be at the heart of all Faiths........but rarely is. We seem rather to prefer just talk about "God" and often futile disputes.


Tariki, where does the term "Pure Land" come from anyway, and why use it to define Buddhism?
Electric_Banana On February 05, 2024




, New Zealand
#67New Post! Nov 27, 2011 @ 12:17:47
@tariki Said

EB, not sure exactly what you mean here.

Mysticism is the center of fundamental Christianity? Did you mean "fundamentalist" Christianity, or do you mean exactly what you wrote, i.e. that mysticism is at the heart of Christianity?

Obviously - at least to me - it all depends on exactly what we define "mysticism" as. If we mean the actual experience of the divine/reality, then I would say it should be at the heart of all Faiths........but rarely is. We seem rather to prefer just talk about "God" and often futile disputes.



I would say that 'Mysticism' is guesswork at lesser known sciences often times resulting in an absurd illustration even though there is a logic to what is being said.

ie; I'm the first man to see rain and notice the growth of plant life resulting from it so I explain to all the rest of my cave men that the cloud animals who rule the sky love us so much that they piss magic to grow food from the ground for us.

So a thousand years later most people don't know a whole lot about farming and are really getting pissed off with the religious sects and their whole urinating cloud creature thing.
tariki On September 16, 2012

Deleted



, United Kingdom
#68New Post! Nov 27, 2011 @ 12:23:56
@BozieFozie Said

Tariki, where does the term "Pure Land" come from anyway, and why use it to define Buddhism?


Its origins are clouded in mystery (seriously, there is much scholarly debate concerning the transformation of Indian Buddhism into its expressions in other cultures) The idea of a Pure Land is that they were lands created by various Buddha's, in which it would be easier to practice and attain enlightenment....this in a life after this one. It was Shinran , 13th century, who to a certain extent telescoped this entire futuristic understanding into the idea that the Pure Land is/was in fact here NOW, for those who live "in faith" ( Japanese word "shinjin" )

The term does not "define" Buddhism. In fact many Western Buddhists patronise Pure Land Buddhism as not being "real" Buddhism. It appears to them to have far too many similarities with the Christianity that they have rejected.

Without going into tedious detail, the difference between Pure Land Buddhism (which in itself covers a wide range of historically evolved teachings and "sects" ) and say, Theravada Buddhism ( i.e. the Buddhism found in Sri Lanka, Thailand and a few other places) is great. Not least, given that Theravada is monastic based, while Pure Land is exclusively lay based.

woodss On February 26, 2024




,
#69New Post! Nov 27, 2011 @ 14:02:23
Tariki we all have differnt diverse beliefs, and it what makes up who we are.
MadCornishBiker On January 14, 2014

Banned



St Columb Road, United Kingdom
#70New Post! Nov 27, 2011 @ 14:10:12
@woodss Said

Tariki we all have differnt diverse beliefs, and it what makes up who we are.



Yup, it makes some of us right and others wrong.
woodss On February 26, 2024




,
#71New Post! Nov 27, 2011 @ 14:17:57
@MadCornishBiker Said

Yup, it makes some of us right and others wrong.


I agree with you there.
There is things we can agree on.
MadCornishBiker On January 14, 2014

Banned



St Columb Road, United Kingdom
#72New Post! Nov 27, 2011 @ 14:33:39
@woodss Said

I agree with you there.
There is things we can agree on.



Of course there are, no-one gets everything wrong. Well hardly anyone anyway.
woodss On February 26, 2024




,
#73New Post! Nov 27, 2011 @ 14:53:47
Yep
tariki On September 16, 2012

Deleted



, United Kingdom
#74New Post! Nov 27, 2011 @ 15:11:05
@woodss Said

I agree with you there.
There is things we can agree on.



You agree that different beliefs mean that it makes "some of US right and others wrong".....?

Such presumption!

tariki On September 16, 2012

Deleted



, United Kingdom
#75New Post! Nov 27, 2011 @ 17:08:27
Just a further point on being "right" or "wrong", a little verse by the Pure Land "saint" (mykonin) Saichi, who wrote....

Whether I am falling to hell
Or bound for the Pure Land,
I have no knowledge:
All is left to Amida's Vow.
"Namu-amida-butsu!"


We are often in no position to know if we are right or wrong, and the verse points to it being trust in the nature of Reality-as-is that sustains and transforms.

The need to insist that we are right shows a lack of faith, and is only an attempt to justify ourselves - to trust in ourselves rather than rest in Grace.

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