Just how innocent was Trayvon?

@shinobinoz Said

For sure. "Stand your ground" certainly does not mean follow and confront.

Kinda like Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr.
"The right to swing my fist ends where the other man's nose begins."
You're not likely to get that close without a counter punch from me- so who's in the wrong?

@DuLu Said

Both of you! Or maybe it depends on the mood or whim of all those
who will be involved in the case: the witnesses, the police,
the judge and the jury.

@DuLu Said

You must have a special look about you that warns people off or
something. I have been approached many times in neighborhoods that were new to me, and by members of my own race. I may be posting things on doors (for a good cause), I may be trying to find a specific house and keep slowing down, and pulling over to check my directions or make a call. They (of my race, or not) will come to my car and ask me what I'm doing there. And they don't tell me that I look suspicious, but obviously it's clear that's why they come out and watch or approach. Someone they don't know is in their neighborhood --- maybe looking for a specific person/house, maybe trying to deliver a newspaper or maybe trying to collect for newspaper delivery --- all kinds of possible legitimate reasons. But the people in the neighborhood don't know the reason - so they watch and/or approach. It is not about the race, or the hoodie, or the skittles --- it is about some neighbors acting in proactive (rather then reACTIVE) ways in order to help keep their neighborhood a safe place to live. ***regardless of the race/age/gender involved.

@hoppy Said

Once long ago, 1959, I just got hired by a Mfg. plant to work the 2nd. shift. I lived a little over 2 miles away. My shift ended at 11:30 PM. Not knowing anyone there yet, I walked the 2+ miles home.
There was 2 ways to get to my home. Follow the rail tracks or walk over the hill through a upper class neighborhood, a much more pleasant route. That's the way I chose.
One night on my way through this neighborhood a squad car pulled over and a cop got out. He wanted ID and asked what I was doing there. My answers satisfied him and as he was leaving he said someone saw me and didn't recognize me as belonging there and called them to check.

@Forumless Said

DuLu you are sbsolutely correct on this one. About 40 years ago when I first moved to California I was out job hunting. I got lost and ended up in Watts. I was pulled over by a cop and he asked me if I was there trying to cause problems.

@hoppy Said

Once long ago, 1959, I just got hired by a Mfg. plant to work the 2nd. shift. I lived a little over 2 miles away. My shift ended at 11:30 PM. Not knowing anyone there yet, I walked the 2+ miles home.
There was 2 ways to get to my home. Follow the rail tracks or walk over the hill through a upper class neighborhood, a much more pleasant route. That's the way I chose.
One night on my way through this neighborhood a squad car pulled over and a cop got out. He wanted ID and asked what I was doing there. My answers satisfied him and as he was leaving he said someone saw me and didn't recognize me as belonging there and called them to check.

@jonnythan Said

See, that's how it should work. An actual public servant trained in how to deal respectfully with potential suspects or suspicious people. A professional trained in how to keep situations from escalating and staying cool and calm.

Zimmerman was, apparently, a hothead. He was not trained in how to deal with these situations. He was pissed off at these people who "always get away" and Trayvon Martin died because of Zimmerman's ignorance and unprofessional, untrained, impulsive behavior.

@shinobinoz Said

How so?

@DuLu Said

Because I believe it is humanely impossible for anyone to be
unbiased ==== especially when it comes to determining who's to blame.
The truth often does not set you free. As much as judges, and jury members and all those involved (including anyone who is talked to when facts are gathered) all try to remain fair and just --- they all have their biases. There is so much psychological bullying going on in the real world today, it is amazing --- all this ego and bluster.
Wise people when they are behaving logically know they should choose their battles - in the case of being confronted by a proprietary
person, perhaps the wisest thing to do would be to answer/respond
politely or simply walk away. Why risk loss of life or limb because of a stupid pissing contest? Sometimes, ya gotta man up and 'stand your ground' ; but sooner or later, if we don't want to go back to wild, wild west days - the emotional pissing-contest bristling-with-indignation type of response has to be downplayed and one person has to make the right MOVE, to deflate the hot-air of the possible perpetrator. Sometimes, it takes more strength and saves lives to
.... walk away. ...end
PREVIOUS POSTS========

@shinobinoz Said :For sure. "Stand your ground" certainly does not mean follow and confront. Kinda like Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr.
"The right to swing my fist ends where the other man's nose begins."
You're not likely to get that close without a counter punch from me- so who's in the wrong?

DuLu replied:
Both of you! Or maybe it depends on the mood or whim of all those
who will be involved in the case: the witnesses, the police,
the judge and the jury.

@shinobinoz Said

If you swing at me (with the intent of stopping within an inch of my nose) I'll duck and have clocked you big time. I'm in the wrong how?

@hoppy Said

Trayvon doesn't sound like the angelic little boy he's portrayed.


As George Zimmerman's supporters work to stem the rising tide of public outrage aimed at the neighborhood watchman who shot and killed Florida teenager Trayvon Martin last month, a new picture of the victim—culled from the 17-year-old's Twitter account and witness testimony leaked from local law enforcement—has emerged.

link [news.yahoo.com]

@Forumless Said

DuLu you are sbsolutely correct on this one. About 40 years ago when I first moved to California I was out job hunting. I got lost and ended up in Watts. I was pulled over by a cop and he asked me if I was there trying to cause problems.

@DuLu Said

What? Because you could of been the better peson, the stronger
person who turns around and walks away - ----- and lives another day (because that dude you clocked will go get his buddies and you'll be flat on the ground, probably dead! - but you sure showed him by clocking him ----- how's that working for your family and friends now?)

Anyways, to use the example you used above --- I was talking about the bias of those WHO WILL judge (family,friends and all those in the legal system) -- THOSE WHO WILL judge you and your victim .... in an official and unofficial manner. What if the victime died from a concussion, you could claim 'self-defense', stand your ground etc etc.
Yes, yes, he swung first. But your hand became the legal weapon.
Words/fists can be weapons, and they can incite others to the stage
of rage, resulting in death. Fine, fine, everyone wants to stand their ground, go for it. Not saying I wouldn't either. And it may cost me my life. THOSE WHO ARE LEFT BEHIND, and the legal system
will then start a thorough investigation (hopefully) --- and all or
most of them will have some sort of bias as they judge 'you'.
Just sayin'!!

Hey, DPD time! WooHoo.

@alexRC Said

Zimmerman was supposedly told to stay put as we all know he was snatched out of his vehicle.

@Forumless Said

DuLu you are sbsolutely correct on this one. About 40 years ago when I first moved to California I was out job hunting. I got lost and ended up in Watts. I was pulled over by a cop and he asked me if I was there trying to cause problems.

@shinobinoz Said

Agree! Logical outcomes for logical inquiries.
But then (thank goodness) you weren't either cuffed or shot.
That is prolly a possibility although a very minute one.
Wish it were so for all such innocent stops, but I've seen my fair share go ugly and it seems to happen most of the time to innocent stops when the person is of color. Perhaps soon that will be minute possibility for everyone.

@shinobinoz Said

Yup! We should always base our decisions on anecdotal evidence!