marthara said:

From the moment of conception there is human life. At the moment of the union of egg and sperm something happmns which unlocks the process of building a living human form.

In the very early weeks, the developing baby is called an embryo. Then, from about eight weeks onward, it is called a foetus, meaning 'young one'.

Three weeks from the first day of your last menstrual period the fertilised egg moves slowly along the fallopian tube towards the womb. By the time it reaches the womb it has become a mass of over 100 cells, called an embryo, and is still growing. Once in the womb, the embryo burrows into the womb lining. This is called implantation.
As the cells divide they start to aggregate and differentiate into all the different types of cells within the human body. The outer cells reach out like roots to link with the mothers blood supply. The inner cells form into two and then later into three layers. Each of these layers will grow to be different parts of the baby's body. One layer becomes the brain and nervous system, the skin, eyes and ears. Another layer becomes the lungs, stomach and gut. The third layer becomes the heart, blood, muscles and bones.
The fifth week is the time of the first missed period when most women are only just beginning to think they may be pregnant. Yet already the baby's nervous system and organs are starting to develop.

At 3-4 Weeks..

* The brain, spinal cord,and the heart is forming and the baby already has some of its own blood vessels. A string of these blood vessels connects baby and mother and will become the umbilical cord.
* The gastrointestinal tract begins to develop

At 4-5 weeks.....
* Arm and leg buds become visible.
* Brain develops into five areas and some cranial nerves are visible
A groove forms in the top layer of cells. The cells fold up and round to make a hollow tube called the neural tube. This will become the baby's brain and spinal cord, so the tube has a 'head end' and a 'tail end'. Defects in this tube are the cause of spina bifida.
* Eyes and ear begin to form. Dimples on the side of the head will become the ears and there are thickenings where the eyes will be.
* Formation of tissue that develops into the vertebra and other bones
* Further development of the heart which now beats at a regular rhythm The heart can be seen beating on an ultrasound scan. and there is movement of blood through the main vessels.

Week 6

* Arms and legs have grown longer, and foot and hand areas can be distringuished
* Hands and feet have fingers and toes (digits), but may still be webbed
* Brain continues to form
* Lungs begin to form

At 7-8 weeks...

* Nipples and hair follicles form
* There are now the beginnings of hands and feet, with ridges where the fingers and toes will be. Elbows and toes visible
* All essential organs have begun to form

* A face is slowly forming. The eyes are more obvious and have some colour in them. Eyelids are more developed
* External features of the ear begin to take their final shape
* Facial features continue to develop There is a mouth, with a tongue.
* Intestines rotate

After 8 weeks the baby is no longer known as an embryo but a foetus

At nine weeks...
the baby, foetus, 'little one' has grown to about 22 mm long from head to bottom.

At Weeks 9 to 12

* Eyelids close and will not reopen until about the 28th week
* Face is well formed
* Limbs are long and thin
* Genitals appear well differentiated
* Red blood cells are produced in the liver
* The head makes up nearly half of the fetus' size
* The baby can make a fist with its fingers
* Tooth buds appear for the baby teeth
At Just 12 weeks after conception the foetus is fully formed.
It has all its organs, muscles, limbs and bones, and its sex organs are well developed. From now on it has to grow and mature.
The baby is already moving about , but the movements cannot yet be felt. A very loud noise close by may make it jump and kick.

# Weeks 13 to 16

* Fetal skin is almost transparent
* Fine hair called lanugo develops on the head
* Meconium is made in the intestinal tract
* More muscle tissue and bones have developed, and the bones become harder
* The baby begins to make more active movements
* The liver and pancreas produce fluid secretions
* Sucking motions are made with the mouth

# Weeks 17 to 19

* Baby can hear
* Baby makes more movements
* Mother may feel a fluttering in the lower abdomen

at Week 20

* Lanugo hair covers entire body
* Eyebrows and lashes appear
* Nails appear on fingers and toes
* The baby is more active with increased muscle development
* Mother can feel the baby moving
* Fetal heartbeat can be heard with a stethoscope

At Weeks 21 to 23

* Bone marrow begins to make blood cells
* The lower airways of the baby's lungs develop but still do not produce surfactant (a substance that allows the alveoli to open for gas exchange)
* Baby begins to store fat
The baby is now has the potential to survive
At Week 24- the legal limit for abortion in the uk
* Eyebrows and eyelashes are well formed
* All eye parts are developed
* The baby has a hand and startle reflex
* Footprints and fingerprints forming
* Air sacs form in lungs



The earliest gestational age at which the infant has at least a 50% chance of survival is referred to as the limit of viability. As NICU care has improved over the last 40 years, viability has reduced to approximately 24 weeks, although rare survivors have been documented as early as 21 weeks
James Elgin Gill (born on 20 May 1987 in Ottawa, Canada) was the earliest premature baby in the world. He was 128 days premature (21 weeks and 5 days gestation) and weighed 1 lb. 6 oz. (624 g). He survived and is a healthy adult now of 22 years.
There is a 50% chance of survival of a baby born at 24 weeks
At 26 weeks there is an 80% chance of survival.

The legal uk limit for abortion at 24 weeks , just 6 months,is killing a premature baby which has at least a 50% chance of survival.. The fact that a premature baby was born at 21 weeks in 1987 survived and is healthy is remarkable and its now 2009 and neonatal care has advanced. It is amazing that its possible that a foetus, a premature baby can survive from just 5 months gestation. That is just 20 weeks.
The fact that the foetus is essentially fully formed at a mere 3 months,12 weeks, although very much dependant on its mothers womb means it is likely to be sentient, it is very much alive codependantly. It central and peripheral nervous system are devoped enough for it to chose to kick and move and the tools of perception, the senses and brain are displaying the beginnings of human consciousness.

the heart which independantly beats its own regular rythm has beat and pumped its own blood through its developing body since a mere 4 to 5 weeks. When it is said that it is 4-5 weeks , that is 4-5 weeks since the date of the last period. This means that the heart actually is develops enough to beat within 2 to 3 weeks of conception!The cells which are known as myogenic which generate nerve impulses which tell the heart tissues to beat are self generating, independant of the central nervous sytem of the brain and spine.The heart is central to life. The 'divine spark' , the wonderous feat of evolututionary engineering that drives deveopment from conception,a single fertilized egg to an amazing aray of tisssues arranged into a humanoid form that forms into a baby human is human life and at every stage is very much alive at a level 'independant' of the mother.
To say that the termination /abortion/ miscarriage of a developing human in the womb is not taking life is almost like saying that a child of 6 dying/killed is not death/killing because they were never a teenager or adult.

An embryo of 8 weeks or less is alive but how much can they feel? they are not a bunch of just cells.They Do not just have the potential to be human , they are human.The heart beats and thier developing brains are already beginning to command connections with its eyes, ears and limbs.
A foetus from 9 weeks can make a fist and starts to move around.
This is a form of consciousness. How much can this living human form feel ? At what stage does perception occur? Can a foetus feel pain? Do they get hot and cold or Are they always buffered by thier mothers womb? We know that sound travels into the womb and that by 13 to 17 weeks babies are responsive to sound and begin to explore and respond to touch and some start to suck thier thumbs- which is a characteristic often carried into childhood when learnt in the womb.Babies often even deveop a preference for certain foods while in the womb for the taste of certain foods are carried through the amniotic fluid and placenta.

Where there is a significant risk to the mothers physical or mental health to continue with a pregancy abortion should be a rightfor the mother/and father to choose but upto what point?
If a new born child was left to die there would be shock and outrage. Eveeryone knows that babies can feel pain, cold hunger,warmth etc and from a very very early age display a range of 'basic'(complex) emotions.From the moment of birth we recognise they are aware.
At what point does the magnitute of the suffering of the foetus become unjust?
If a new born premature baby of 21 weeks has a right to life and a right not to be killed or suffer independant of the wishes of thier parents then shouldn't a unborn baby of 21 weeks have that right too?
An abortion so late would involve giving birth anyway.I think its horrifically traumatic for the mother to have to give birth for her baby to die and for the premature baby who was alive and aware and able to feel human sensation and probable emotion. I think that the babies are born stillborn after a lethal cocktail of drugs but i have heard rumors of the babies surviving for some time , unassisted despite the standard procedures. Why is it acceptable for these vulnerable lives to be devalued and disregarded and thier potential suffering ignored and denied medical treatments and thier chance at life when they are now capable of possibly independantly surviving out of thier mothers womb healthily ?
I can see no justification for abortions to be carried out on anyone more than 20 weeks under any circumstances. The baby could be adopted.
in the case of risk of mothers mortality labour could be induced and the baby still givem a chance .
personally i feel that abortion is not justifyable once the developing baby, the foetus is aware and sentient.the only exceptions to the rule would be that continuing with the pregnancy would cause undue psychological distress or physical risk.

The way in which young women are told to think " what do you want?" I feel is the wrong way to go about abortion. Its too late for do you want to have a baby?, They have a baby already inside them,. That bundle of cells as an embryo under 8 weeks has already had a month of heartbeats . Women are only likely to realize they may be pregnant at 5 to 7 weeks depending on how regular thier cycle is.
In the case of young mums , in particular the teen mums, its probably more common for them not to realize or seek advice till later. This may mean that they don't discover they are pregnant till 9, 12 16 weeks..... Especially as teenage girls menstrual cycles are commonly erratic and they may be reluctant to approach thier doctor or parents or simply hope it will go away.
Is it just to abort a living developing baby for economic reasons? Babies are expensive and one could argue that a young mother is less likely to be able to provide for her baby so should just go have an abortion.

The attitude to abortion is so flippant it seems. Is life that cheap? Abortions are doled out in huge numbers across the country. Lives denied. Abortion is not a form of birth control. Is it really in the best interests of women
and the life they carry inside them and society? We are told to think of it as just a bundle of cells , like a tumor. The idea of embryo, foetus has been completely dehumanized, inanimate.
Is life that bad?
What has happned to the idea of family? Is the media responcible for encouraging the dissociation of (unprotected)sex and procreation? Is it a reflection of societies attitudes to relationships?
Is there a total disregard of the rights of the (unborn) child with abortion?
should the unborn child have rights?
At what point should the rights of the unborn child be considered equal to the mothers?
Can late abortion ever be in the babys best interest? Is the trauma of adoption better or worse than a late abortion for the mother?
Pregnancy, conception is irreverible . Nothing will ever change the fact that a life existedeven if it only resided within the walls of the womb for a short time.
People often think of the psychological impact of carrying a potentially unwanted child on the mother but the psychological imopact of abortion can be worse

boxerdc said:

At 4 weeks

Quote:
You ask the question like you are wanting each persons own personal answer and on what grounds, but you didn't give all the choices. My answer is for myself personally , abortion would not be an option for my self personaaly.

vickylondon said:

In my opinion I think it is too have an abortion when you literally have to go into labour to abort.
In the UK the abortion limit is 24 weeks, this is when the mother is showing quite dramatically, the fetus is kicking and it is starting to look like a baby. To me this is too late and completely wrong.
I think the limit should be about 12 weeks. This will give the doctors time to find out if the baby has any medical problems or disabilities. This is when I think abortion is acceptable.

marthara said:

what are all the options?

nice pics boxerdc

all creatures share characteristics at an early stage of devepment so i bet dinosaur embryos looked pretty similar at that stage of deveploment!