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Forum Index > Society & Lifestyles > History |
MingLee
Mega Über-Meister
4033 points
Deleted
13/F/Anaheim, California
Join Date: Jan 2009 | curiouskat said:
Ahh thankyou.
As i said earlier the book i read on it was written in the 90s and i wondered if current research had pushed it out of the 'oldest' genre.
I am curious (as the screename suggests!) as to what is considered the oldest then.
When i was in school, popular thought had the Babylonians as the oldest civilisation. But that was only 5,000 yrs or so ago if memory serves me.
I am about to start studies again, and history is one of my chosen lessons. Getting up to date on this would prove very handy atm.
Not only was my last schooling over 10 years ago, but my memory has become fuzzy with age!
I have also found that my lessons in school tended to be a tiny bit biased!
If one city were enough to qualify as a civilization, then Jericho in Palestine or Çatal Hüyük in Turkey might qualify as the first civilizations. The first group of people to have multiple cities was Sumer in the southern part of Iraq with its first city about 7,400 years ago. The city of Babylon dates from about 4,300 years ago. The Sumer People and the Babylonians spoke different languages. The Babylonians took control of Sumer much like the Mongols took control of China. Then the Babylonians adopted Sumerian culture just like the Mongols became Chinese. The oldest cities in the Indus Valley date from about 4000 years ago.
Technically the human story can't be called history before the invention of writing, which happened while the Sumerian people controlled Southern Irag. One of my friends has a book History Begins at Sumer by Samuel Noah Kramer. It's an anthology of Sumerian Literature. And, wonder of all wonders, it's On Line . And, you can access it without a password if you google history begins at sumer and then click on the proper link.
Edit: The last line turns out not to be true. To read the like, one might need to go to a library or register as a member of the website. |  | | Edited: June 23, 2009 @ 15:48 |  |
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MingLee
Mega Über-Meister
4033 points
Deleted
13/F/Anaheim, California
Join Date: Jan 2009 | cityzen said:
Would that be Canadian whisky? I always preferred a snort of Crown Royal during the Christmas holidays.....
The information the I read about the distilled liquor industry spoke of how in the seventeenth century, wine was distilled, in the eighteenth century, molasses was distilled, and in the nineteenth century grain was distilled, but don't remember if it mentioned Canadian Whisky. I'll need to look at it. | | | |
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curiouskat
Minister+
10381 points
30/F/Adelaide, Australia
Join Date: May 2009 | MingLee said:
If one city were enough to qualify as a civilization, then Jericho in Palestine or Çatal Hüyük in Turkey might qualify as the first civilizations. The first group of people to have multiple cities was Sumer in the southern part of Iraq with its first city about 7,400 years ago. The city of Babylon dates from about 4,300 years ago. The Sumer People and the Babylonians spoke different languages. The Babylonians took control of Sumer much like the Mongols took control of China. Then the Babylonians adopted Sumerian culture just like the Mongols became Chinese. The oldest cities in the Indus Valley date from about 4000 years ago.
Technically the human story can't be called history before the invention of writing, which happened while the Sumerian people controlled Southern Irag. One of my friends has a book History Begins at Sumer by Samuel Noah Kramer. It's an anthology of Sumerian Literature. And, wonder of all wonders, it's On Line . And, you can access it without a password if you google history begins at sumer and then click on the proper link.
AHH i often get muddled hey?
Too much brief reading of contradictory texts over the years i think!
I bookmarked that link on Sumerian literature, am looking forward to sitting down with a coffee and having a good read.
You will have me acing my history class in no time!
Thanks love xoxox
A cat is more intelligent than people believe, and can be taught any crime.-Mark Twain | | | |
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MingLee
Mega Über-Meister
4033 points
Deleted
13/F/Anaheim, California
Join Date: Jan 2009 | curiouskat said:
AHH i often get muddled hey?
Too much brief reading of contradictory texts over the years i think!
I bookmarked that link on Sumerian literature, am looking forward to sitting down with a coffee and having a good read.
You will have me acing my history class in no time!
Thanks love xoxox
So, you must be studying Stone Age History. Does the course have a name? | | | |
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curiouskat
Minister+
10381 points
30/F/Adelaide, Australia
Join Date: May 2009 | MingLee said:
So, you must be studying Stone Age History. Does the course have a name?
Yep, its called Ancient history.
Im yet to really start it hey, my course officialy begins on july 21.
But have been reading trivial bits all my life.
Have you ever seen a book by a man named Proffesor Jarad Diamond called Collapse?
It was something that got me very interested in the topic a couple of years ago and is about the rise and fall of many great nations in history..
A cat is more intelligent than people believe, and can be taught any crime.-Mark Twain | | | |
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MingLee
Mega Über-Meister
4033 points
Deleted
13/F/Anaheim, California
Join Date: Jan 2009 | I had not heard of Jarad Diamond, but he appears to be one in a line of history professors who compare modern society with past society. The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire by Edward Gibbon could be the first of the genre. Gibbon lived during the chaos, which American History books call the American Revolution.
Here in the United States the teachers concentrate on the conflict between England and France for control of North America, but actually the fight raged also in Europe, Africa, and India. In 1763, the British became the master race, much like Rome during the reign of Hadrian (117 AD) or the Holly Roman Empire during the reign of Henry III. (eleventh century ??). Gibbon published his book during the part of the American Revolution, which historians call the beginning of the Revolutionary War. The continuing conflict must have made him wonder if the British Empire would disappear as well.
Most people would say that the British Empire did disappear, but I have a history tutor who insists that it only changed form. He argues that the British still get everything that they want form their former colonies, but instead of taking it in the manner of the Romans (or Nazis?), they buy it in the manner suggested by Adam Smith.
The doomsday view of history caught on as a genre. Two historians who continued the tradition were HG Wells and Oswald Spengler both publishing after World War One. Wells wrote a massive ten volume history of the world. My tutor thinks that Wells wanted to collect all of history in one place, so socialists could argue that capitalism was dead. Spengler argued, maybe like Gibbon, that societies grow and die. The things that make them grow also kill them. He studied many different societies, just like Diamond, who might be a disciple(?) of Spengler’s.
I’m reluctant to buy into any of it because everyday somebody finds a new way that the cosmos wants to kill us. My bias against listening to any doomsday theory probably comes from my father, who is a disciple of Saint Patrick’s Law, sometimes known as Murphy’s Law. The law says: Failure is mandatory. Saint Patrick was an engineer. He knew that if he built an airplane, someday the wings would fall off. If he built a building or a bridge, someday they would fall down. Predicting disaster is easy. Anybody can do it because failure is mandatory. The real problem is knowing when the wing will fall off or when the building will fall down. As my father (or uncle) would say in the Chinese manner: Problem easy. Solution difficult. Or they might say: Yesterday easy. Tomorrow difficult.
Sorry to end with such negative karma. I wish I had a boyfriend. I need a hug. | | | | Edited: June 23, 2009 @ 15:39 | |
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curiouskat
Minister+
10381 points
30/F/Adelaide, Australia
Join Date: May 2009 | MingLee said:
I had not heard of Jarad Diamond, but he appears to be one in a line of history professors who compare modern society with past society. The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire by Edward Gibbon could be the first of the genre. Gibbon lived during the chaos, which American History books call the American Revolution.
Here in the United States the teachers concentrate on the conflict between England and France for control of North America, but actually the fight raged also in Europe, Africa, and India. In 1763, the British became the master race, much like Rome during the reign of Hadrian (117 AD) or the Holly Roman Empire during the reign of Henry III. (eleventh century ??). Gibbon published his book during the part of the American Revolution, which historians call the beginning of the Revolutionary War. The continuing conflict must have made him wonder if the British Empire would disappear as well.
Most people would say that the British Empire did disappear, but I have a history tutor who insists that it only changed form. He argues that the British still get everything that they want form their former colonies, but instead of taking it in the manner of the Romans (or Nazis?), they buy it in the manner suggested by Adam Smith.
The doomsday view of history caught on as a genre. Two historians who continued the tradition were HG Wells and Oswald Spengler both publishing after World War One. Wells wrote a massive ten volume history of the world. My tutor thinks that Wells wanted to collect all of history in one place, so socialists could argue that capitalism was dead. Spengler argued, maybe like Gibbon, that societies grow and die. The things that make them grow also kill them. He studied many different societies, just like Diamond, who might be a disciple(?) of Spengler’s.
I’m reluctant to buy into any of it because everyday somebody finds a new way that the cosmos wants to kill us. My bias against listening to any doomsday theory probably comes from my father, who is a disciple of Saint Patrick’s Law, sometimes known as Murphy’s Law. The law says: Failure is mandatory. Saint Patrick was an engineer. He knew that if he built an airplane, someday the wings would fall off. If he built a building or a bridge, someday they would fall down. Predicting disaster is easy. Anybody can do it because failure is mandatory. The real problem is knowing when the wing will fall off or when the building will fall down. As my father (or uncle) would say in the Chinese manner: Problem easy. Solution difficult. Or they might say: Yesterday easy. Tomorrow difficult.
Sorry to end with such negative karma. I wish I had a boyfriend. I need a hug.
AWWWWWW!!!!! This is not the same as a b/f or anywhere near as good as a real hug, but its the best ive got
Hehehe.
A cat is more intelligent than people believe, and can be taught any crime.-Mark Twain | | | |
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curiouskat
Minister+
10381 points
30/F/Adelaide, Australia
Join Date: May 2009 | MingLee said:
I had not heard of Jarad Diamond, but he appears to be one in a line of history professors who compare modern society with past society. The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire by Edward Gibbon could be the first of the genre. Gibbon lived during the chaos, which American History books call the American Revolution.
Here in the United States the teachers concentrate on the conflict between England and France for control of North America, but actually the fight raged also in Europe, Africa, and India. In 1763, the British became the master race, much like Rome during the reign of Hadrian (117 AD) or the Holly Roman Empire during the reign of Henry III. (eleventh century ??). Gibbon published his book during the part of the American Revolution, which historians call the beginning of the Revolutionary War. The continuing conflict must have made him wonder if the British Empire would disappear as well.
Most people would say that the British Empire did disappear, but I have a history tutor who insists that it only changed form. He argues that the British still get everything that they want form their former colonies, but instead of taking it in the manner of the Romans (or Nazis?), they buy it in the manner suggested by Adam Smith.
The doomsday view of history caught on as a genre. Two historians who continued the tradition were HG Wells and Oswald Spengler both publishing after World War One. Wells wrote a massive ten volume history of the world. My tutor thinks that Wells wanted to collect all of history in one place, so socialists could argue that capitalism was dead. Spengler argued, maybe like Gibbon, that societies grow and die. The things that make them grow also kill them. He studied many different societies, just like Diamond, who might be a disciple(?) of Spengler’s.
I’m reluctant to buy into any of it because everyday somebody finds a new way that the cosmos wants to kill us. My bias against listening to any doomsday theory probably comes from my father, who is a disciple of Saint Patrick’s Law, sometimes known as Murphy’s Law. The law says: Failure is mandatory. Saint Patrick was an engineer. He knew that if he built an airplane, someday the wings would fall off. If he built a building or a bridge, someday they would fall down. Predicting disaster is easy. Anybody can do it because failure is mandatory. The real problem is knowing when the wing will fall off or when the building will fall down. As my father (or uncle) would say in the Chinese manner: Problem easy. Solution difficult. Or they might say: Yesterday easy. Tomorrow difficult.
Sorry to end with such negative karma. I wish I had a boyfriend. I need a hug.
In a sense i agree, Jarad Diamond does appear to fall in line with the doomsday theorists. However at the end of this particular book he devoted a chapter to suggestions about how we could learn from the mistakes of our predecessors (why cant i spell that?hehe) and make this civilisation thrive.
I cant for the life of me recall a single one of them right now though, figures!! And i have loaned the book to a rather forgetful friend whos lost it! But i know i came away from the book with a certain feeling that all was not lost.
I also agree with your father, every good thing must come to an end. But on a positive spin i feel that everything that passes does so to make may for something stronger and more successful.(evolution on its simplest level) For every ending is a new beginning, so negative will never stay negative for long hun.
A cat is more intelligent than people believe, and can be taught any crime.-Mark Twain | | | |
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MingLee
Mega Über-Meister
4033 points
Deleted
13/F/Anaheim, California
Join Date: Jan 2009 |
Oh, thank you. Or as the King (that would be Elvis, the American King, not George the British King) says, Thank yal very much.
I just recently learned about Elvis. We went to a Mexican restaurant before we went to The Complete Works of Shakespeare, Abridged. The restaurant is decorated with Elvis Prestley memorabilia. Somehow, Elvis and enchiladas does not compute. I'm still in shock. | | | |
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MingLee
Mega Über-Meister
4033 points
Deleted
13/F/Anaheim, California
Join Date: Jan 2009 | curiouskat said:
In a sense i agree, Jarad Diamond does appear to fall in line with the doomsday theorists. However at the end of this particular book he devoted a chapter to suggestions about how we could learn from the mistakes of our predecessors (why cant i spell that?hehe) and make this civilisation thrive.
I cant for the life of me recall a single one of them right now though, figures!! And i have loaned the book to a rather forgetful friend whos lost it! But i know i came away from the book with a certain feeling that all was not lost.
I also agree with your father, every good thing must come to an end. But on a positive spin i feel that everything that passes does so to make may for something stronger and more successful.(evolution on its simplest level) For every ending is a new beginning, so negative will never stay negative for long hun.
Jarad Diamond has videos on the internet. I'll watch a couple to see what he says.
You asked about Chinese history. The Old Foggy told me that when his father was in school the teacher's told him that China was the oldest civilization. I'm sure my grandfather would agree, but it's not quite right. My friend has a book, The Rise of the West, which he read when he was a boy. It says that China got started along the Huang He river, and India got started along the Indus River, and Europe got started in Crete, all about the same time in the second millennium before the common era. [I need to say common era instead of before Christ because my Jewish tutor might read this.  ]
China lived isolated from the other three centers of civilization. I know that the Romans imported silk form China, but one might guess that they didn't know it was form China. China imported horses and watermelons from the west. The characters for watermelon are west melon. And I think my grandparent's religion must have come from India, but it's an agglutination of a bunch of Buddha and several Tz. It's hard to know what's religion and what's custom, like in the United States, socialists worship work like it's a sort deity, but they don't call it religion. | | | |
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curiouskat
Minister+
10381 points
30/F/Adelaide, Australia
Join Date: May 2009 | MingLee said:
Jarad Diamond has videos on the internet. I'll watch a couple to see what he says.
You asked about Chinese history. The Old Foggy told me that when his father was in school the teacher's told him that China was the oldest civilization. I'm sure my grandfather would agree, but it's not quite right. My friend has a book, The Rise of the West, which he read when he was a boy. It says that China got started along the Huang He river, and India got started along the Indus River, and Europe got started in Crete, all about the same time in the second millennium before the common era. [I need to say common era instead of before Christ because my Jewish tutor might read this. ]
China lived isolated from the other three centers of civilization. I know that the Romans imported silk form China, but one might guess that they didn't know it was form China. China imported horses and watermelons from the west. The characters for watermelon are west melon. And I think my grandparent's religion must have come from India, but it's an agglutination of a bunch of Buddha and several Tz. It's hard to know what's religion and what's custom, like in the United States, socialists worship work like it's a sort deity, but they don't call it religion.
(I prefer common era also,lol)
Though im not a religious person myself, i love reading about religion. I find all the customs of the world to be beautiful and each hold an integral place within their society whether modern people care to accept this as fact or not.
I have read small things about Chinese religion however it doesnt seem to be as widely spread online as the others.
Buddism is one that i find to be most accurate in a religious sense as it does not impose itself on the others and as you say is more a way of life than a religion as such (as is Hinduism i guess)
I think that when you take out the word 'religion' all together and put in its place 'custom' it makes more sense.
My parents were Atheist and while i respect their right to ask for proof before accepting something as fact, it sure took the mystery out of my childhood!
I think China is very lucky in that all the religion of the west had its persecuters who took their doctrines and warped or totally destroyed them. Where China has mostly been able to keep their history intact.
Do you prescribe to your parents religion??
A cat is more intelligent than people believe, and can be taught any crime.-Mark Twain | | | |
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MingLee
Mega Über-Meister
4033 points
Deleted
13/F/Anaheim, California
Join Date: Jan 2009 | curiouskat said:
(I prefer common era also,lol)
Though im not a religious person myself, i love reading about religion. I find all the customs of the world to be beautiful and each hold an integral place within their society whether modern people care to accept this as fact or not.
I have read small things about Chinese religion however it doesnt seem to be as widely spread online as the others.
Buddism is one that i find to be most accurate in a religious sense as it does not impose itself on the others and as you say is more a way of life than a religion as such (as is Hinduism i guess)
I think that when you take out the word 'religion' all together and put in its place 'custom' it makes more sense.
My parents were Atheist and while i respect their right to ask for proof before accepting something as fact, it sure took the mystery out of my childhood!
I think China is very lucky in that all the religion of the west had its persecuters who took their doctrines and warped or totally destroyed them. Where China has mostly been able to keep their history intact.
Do you prescribe to your parents religion??
Well, I, too, should say common era because Chinese people have a calendar, which is not much different that the Jewish Calendar; but annoying my tutor by saying before Christ or Gregorian Calendar is so much fun. And, besides, he loves it. Diablito Mio.
In some ways, Chinese people don’t have religion in the modern sense of the word. The one thing that Chinese people may have in common with people in the other three cultural regions, Europe, India, and the Middle East, is ancestor worship. I don’t know much about the Chinese version of it because my mother is a Catholic, and I have learned to be a Catholic, which includes catechism, first communion, confirmation, that sort of thing. However, when I work at one of our businesses, I see food on the altar, and I know they are worshiping the ancestors.
Hindu people believe in a creator god, something like the modern Middle Eastern religions, Christianity, Islam, Judaism, but Hindu people have told me that they worship family gods.
I’ve never read about ancestor worship in Europe, but one might speculate that the enormous variety of European gods might have started as ancestor worship.
Muhammad is supposed to have complained about ancestor worship in Arabia, and the Koran has hardly a page without the mention of some sort of demigod or other, so maybe, like in Europe, the gods began as ancestor gods.
China has a religion that persecutes people. It’s called communism.
My grandfather likes to talk about China’s continuous history. The barbarians come to China; and they become Chinese. My history tutor likes to say that Western or European Culture started with the Psalm 137. The Psalm must have been written about 586 BCE, which is before the birth of Kung Tz in 551 BCE. I hope grandfather doesn’t read this. Hail Mary . . . pray for us sinners . . . | | | |
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curiouskat
Minister+
10381 points
30/F/Adelaide, Australia
Join Date: May 2009 | MingLee said:
Well, I, too, should say common era because Chinese people have a calendar, which is not much different that the Jewish Calendar; but annoying my tutor by saying before Christ or Gregorian Calendar is so much fun. And, besides, he loves it. Diablito Mio.
In some ways, Chinese people don’t have religion in the modern sense of the word. The one thing that Chinese people may have in common with people in the other three cultural regions, Europe, India, and the Middle East, is ancestor worship. I don’t know much about the Chinese version of it because my mother is a Catholic, and I have learned to be a Catholic, which includes catechism, first communion, confirmation, that sort of thing. However, when I work at one of our businesses, I see food on the altar, and I know they are worshiping the ancestors.
Hindu people believe in a creator god, something like the modern Middle Eastern religions, Christianity, Islam, Judaism, but Hindu people have told me that they worship family gods.
I’ve never read about ancestor worship in Europe, but one might speculate that the enormous variety of European gods might have started as ancestor worship.
Muhammad is supposed to have complained about ancestor worship in Arabia, and the Koran has hardly a page without the mention of some sort of demigod or other, so maybe, like in Europe, the gods began as ancestor gods.
China has a religion that persecutes people. It’s called communism.
My grandfather likes to talk about China’s continuous history. The barbarians come to China; and they become Chinese. My history tutor likes to say that Western or European Culture started with the Psalm 137. The Psalm must have been written about 586 BCE, which is before the birth of Kung Tz in 551 BCE. I hope grandfather doesn’t read this. Hail Mary . . . pray for us sinners . . .
Hehe, im sure your grandfather would respect your desire to seek knowledge and present it, outside of his religious beliefs!
Discussion isnt a sin, at least i dont think so?!!
Ancestor worship,hmm a term i am unfamiliar with, one sec.
Ohhh, like the Dali Lama being reborn time and again to bring his knowledge forward,ok!
Well, i can enlighten you a little there, yay finally something i may be able to teach you!
I read with great interest the beliefs of the Celts (my ancestors were Irish, though dont hold this against me!lol)
They set aside a particular day for worship of the ancestors.
Traditionally in Celtic and Germanic Europe, the feast of Samhain was specially associated with the deceased, and in these countries it was still customary to set a place for them at table on this day until relatively recent times.I think they felt that on this day, the veil between the 2 realms (life and afterlife) was at its thinest and they tried to make contact with their loved one passed at the rituals.(Probably where the oija board came about??)
I believe this is now what may be known as halloween, though previously celebrated on November 1st, where it is now October 31st.
A cat is more intelligent than people believe, and can be taught any crime.-Mark Twain | | | |
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MingLee
Mega Über-Meister
4033 points
Deleted
13/F/Anaheim, California
Join Date: Jan 2009 | curiouskat said:
Hehe, im sure your grandfather would respect your desire to seek knowledge and present it, outside of his religious beliefs!
Discussion isnt a sin, at least i dont think so?!!
Ancestor worship,hmm a term i am unfamiliar with, one sec.
Ohhh, like the Dali Lama being reborn time and again to bring his knowledge forward,ok!
Well, i can enlighten you a little there, yay finally something i may be able to teach you!
I read with great interest the beliefs of the Celts (my ancestors were Irish, though dont hold this against me!lol)
They set aside a particular day for worship of the ancestors.
Traditionally in Celtic and Germanic Europe, the feast of Samhain was specially associated with the deceased, and in these countries it was still customary to set a place for them at table on this day until relatively recent times.I think they felt that on this day, the veil between the 2 realms (life and afterlife) was at its thinest and they tried to make contact with their loved one passed at the rituals.(Probably where the oija board came about??)
I believe this is now what may be known as halloween, though previously celebrated on November 1st, where it is now October 31st.
When I said that my grandfather might be annoyed, I was making a joke. I need to learn to use smiley faces to help with that meaning. He would not be annoyed with anything I said about religion, but my saying that Europe has a longer tradition than China might put a bee in his bonnet like when I don’t write with proper characters. In the American tradition it might be like I would be banished to the children’s table or to the dog house or to below the salt. 
Sure and now, tis an Irish lass yah are. Ahnd if ye be setting a place for the ancestors, and ye be sprinkling it with a bit of the blessed holy water, it shall be a blessing to ye.
Sounds to me like Samhain must have been like Chinese New Year. Buddhists go to temple at New Year to get luck, something like Christians go to mass at Easter to get salvation. Buddhists are supposed to go once a month, at the full moon, about the fifteenth of the month just like Christians are supposed to go once a week on Sunday.
In Tibet or India, souls enter new bodies.
I think that the afterlife in China has one thing in common with the afterlife in ancient Europe or ancient Egypt, and that is that souls go somewhere. Souls in ancient Europe went to Hades or Heaven. The famous example is Hercules who went to both places because he was part god and part mortal. In China, souls go to another place, but that place is a place nearby like in the Disney movie about Mulan or something like you describe with the Celts.
The Celts are an interesting bunch. They were not literate, and like you said about winners writing history, a lot of what is known about the Celts comes from Roman sources, so we could easily have a biased view. I read recently in a news article. I'm not sure where it read it. Maybe I saw it on a televison documentary. Some people think that the Romans might have learned to build roads from Celtic engineers. | | | |
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curiouskat
Minister+
10381 points
30/F/Adelaide, Australia
Join Date: May 2009 | MingLee said:
When I said that my grandfather might be annoyed, I was making a joke. I need to learn to use smiley faces to help with that meaning. He would not be annoyed with anything I said about religion, but my saying that Europe has a longer tradition than China might put a bee in his bonnet like when I don’t write with proper characters. In the American tradition it might be like I would be banished to the children’s table or to the dog house or to below the salt.
Sure and now, tis an Irish lass yah are. Ahnd if ye be setting a place for the ancestors, and ye be sprinkling it with a bit of the blessed holy water, it shall be a blessing to ye.
Sounds to me like Samhain must have been like Chinese New Year. Buddhists go to temple at New Year to get luck, something like Christians go to mass at Easter to get salvation. Buddhists are supposed to go once a month, at the full moon, about the fifteenth of the month just like Christians are supposed to go once a week on Sunday.
In Tibet or India, souls enter new bodies.
I think that the afterlife in China has one thing in common with the afterlife in ancient Europe or ancient Egypt, and that is that souls go somewhere. Souls in ancient Europe went to Hades or Heaven. The famous example is Hercules who went to both places because he was part god and part mortal. In China, souls go to another place, but that place is a place nearby like in the Disney movie about Mulan or something like you describe with the Celts.
The Celts are an interesting bunch. They were not literate, and like you said about winners writing history, a lot of what is known about the Celts comes from Roman sources, so we could easily have a biased view. I read recently in a news article. I'm not sure where it read it. Maybe I saw it on a televison documentary. Some people think that the Romans might have learned to build roads from Celtic engineers.
Hehehe, a joke!! oopsie missed that one!!
I think i would chance a bet that it was the Celts who built Stonehenge, for religious rite purposes.
Was it true they found human remains buried there?
Like a final resting place for their 'royalty' maybe??
And you are right about their knowledge being stopped and altered throughout the course of history.
I was quite interested in Paganism in my teenage years and while i was never sure of exact origins it appears that it wasnt even ressurected for general knowledge in modern times until a man named Gerald Gardener came forward with his research on it in the 1950s.
He claimed (and its very unconfirmed) to have taken lessons from an old woman he stumbled across quite by chance. She was said to have been a village 'wise woman' whom was considered 'crazy' by her townsfolk but had possesion of a book 'of shadows' that had been handed down from generation to generation in her family.
The book detailed 'spells', rituals of moon worship (not at all unlike the ones you mention the buddists partaking in) and medical texts (herbal lore)
He took her knowledge and for the first time published it (it was said to have been kept secret because of the witch hunts that had spread throughout Europe by the christians in the 16th and 17th centuries.)
This became quite a controversy and has evolved into all sorts today from paganism to a religion called wicca.
Who knows how true any of this is ofcourse and when a man named Aleister Crowley entered the picture it was turned into a complete fiasco with him creating a group called The golden order of the hermetic dawn. These people claimed ties with both the Alchemists and the Freemasons.
Crowley was quite the nutter and i think it was from him the term 'satanist' evolved.
I also believe that Adolf Hitler used some of these theories in his own beliefs and from his research i learned that these people had ties with the Arians (crap forgot how to spell it!) that you mentioned blended with the people of the Indus valley..
And it was a book written by these kinds of people that i learned my maybe 'biased' view of the Indus valley, lol.
A cat is more intelligent than people believe, and can be taught any crime.-Mark Twain | | | |
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Jun 22, 2009 @ 04:34:36
